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Feminspire | April 24, 2014

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The Friendzone Isn’t Real: Why I’m Not a Bitch For Turning You Down

The Friendzone Isn’t Real: Why I’m Not a Bitch For Turning You Down

A couple months ago on Modern Family, Manny, the “old man stuck inside a child’s body,” yelled at a girl for sticking him in the friendzone.  Now, Modern Family is usually deemed as this progressive show (there’s a gay couple, y’all!), despite its lack of broad understanding of different income levels, cultures, and aspects of the queer community as a whole. Furthermore, it is perpetuating cultures that pigeonhole women into stereotypes of submissiveness and idiocy (when was the last time Sofia Vergara said anything other than “AYYY JAY!!!”).  And now, little innocent Manny is portrayed as the victim of heartbreak because a girl decided to have free choice. Poor little Manny is so loudly living in the friendzone.

We all know what the friendzone is, right? That guy, that “nice guy” asks you out, you’re not really into him because you believe very rightly so in your own free will and choices to date whoever you please, and when you say no – you’re the rude b-word who turned down the nice guy! How could you, though? He’s so nice. He’s nice to you and you turned him down? You said no? Now, you’re the girl who broke the nice guy. You’re the bitch. You said yes to someone else? You’re the slut.

We’re the bitches and sluts. This one word is bigger than just saying “no” and being the girl who hurts the nice guy. This friendzone is a trap that puts women into two groups – sluts or bitches. This zone shouldn’t be called the friendzone, it should be called the slutzone or the bitchzone because it cages all women into a group of people who are supposed to give in to whatever men please. This concept is the view that women are items being sorted into certain zones where we answer the way you want, living our lives submissively and by patriarchal standards. When we say yes we’re too promiscuous. And when we say no, we’re crazy and hurting the guy that’s ruining his own life to be so nice to us!

The friendzone is the basis for the broader issue that we can’t make our own choices about our sex lives.  And when we keep using this term and keep writing it into our TV shows, women are constantly being told that saying no makes them the “bad guys.” I’m about 300% done with the idea that I still, in 2013, can’t make my own choices. Why does every choice I make have a label? Why is it any of your business? How about we just stop labeling women over every single thing they do? Why is this so much to ask? Let’s stop saying girls are sluts when they decide to say yes and let’s stop saying that we’re prudes and bitches when we say no. We can do whatever we want, and it is sheer sexism to constrict us into groups based on our sex lives.

The worst part about the friendzone is that if I say no and you yell at me for putting you in the friendzone, that wasn’t me putting you in the friendzone. That was me saying to get out of my life forever because if you don’t want to be nice to me out of sheer common decency then you’re not getting near my pantszone and we sure as hell aren’t living as friends in your patriarchal misogynyzones.

Written by Anisha Ahuja

  • Delano

    Dammit, she’s using foolproof logic. Now I have to face my own shortcomings as a man rather than blaming F-zone >”<

  • Jess

    This is great. Well-articulated and to the point. :)

  • http://twitter.com/gia1haiti gia elie

    I’ve been put in the “friendzone” a couple of times in my life. Heard the classic, “You’re so great. I wish I had a girlfriend like you..” line. And yeah, it hurts. But in those moments I had a choice. To decide weather or not having this person in my life would make me happy (were we actually friends? what did we have in common?) Usually after close self-examination I realized that other than my attraction and my projecting a closer connection to this person than actually existed, there wasn’t a real friendship to maintain.

    So with little fanfare and without making the other person feel like they did something wrong, I’d gather up my hurt feelings and keep it moving. No, it’s not an easy thing to do but what’s more difficult (and decidedly creepier) Is thinking another person is Obligated to feel the same way about you that you feel about them.

    The problem with the friendzone is not that it exists, it the fact that like most situations that deal with the sexes and desire, there is a double-standard. Females are expected to withstand a certain amount heartache. It’s considered to be something we’re naturally built for and ‘par for the course’. But males because of how rare it is when they show emotional vulnerability, often wrongly expect females to be Grateful when they finally ‘put themselves out there’.

    When their feeling aren’t reciprocated, they often revert back to more exceptible male emotions, like anger and resentment completely forgetting that just like them Female get to choose who they love or not.

    No one is a Bitch or Asshole or Slut or Dick simply because they don’t like you. But if you think they are, you’re only proving them Right for not choosing to be with you in the First place.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000462248480 Chris Sherwood

      I think your last sentence should be a bumper sticker or something. Because seriously, I said nearly the same thing after you and it should be a flashing neon sign to a guy when he thinks those things.

    • Mgregs

      I have developed a theory on the friendzone that many that I have explained it to agree with. It is rather simple and I think that people don’t look at it this way and that’s why us guys get so upset when we think that we are doing everything in our power to get women to like us. So, here it is..

      Generally speaking and to quote my man Usher, men want a lady in the street, but a freak in the bed. As a gender we are looking for a girl who will only be slutty for us. We want a girl who we can take home to our moms, but have those lines become blurred when we are alone. In reverse, most women that I have dated, talked to, explained my theory to, agree that they want a guy who is really good and nice, to them. They want a guy who will go out, take control of situations, work for what they want and treat their main squeeze as one in a million. Guys that go out and treat every girl with that same mentality aren’t as desirable because women want to feel like they are the only one he feels that way toward. When we go out and give every girl the nice guy treatment, we become emotional sluts. Sort of like when girls go out and give every guy what he is looking for are labeled as physical sluts. Same concept, just reversed. We want a girl that will go out, be a lady, and we will treat her as a lady. Girls want a guy who will go out and act like a guy, not like every girl is that “one in a million” girl.

  • Laylad

    I love this!!

  • justmehere

    You clearly have no idea what the friend zone is. No man or woman turns someone down to be put into the friendzone. MEN AND WOMEN BOTH GET PUT IN THE FRIENDZONE. A man isn’t a misogynist for being hurt after being shot down by a girl who usually leads them on. That’s called having fucking emotions love

    • Mickey

      I don’t think you understand the point the op is trying to make — they’re not saying that it’s not okay to be emotional after being turned down by someone you have feelings for. That would simply be silly. They’re saying that it’s not okay to EXPECT someone to go out with you because you’ve been so “nice” to them. Being nice so that someone will go on a date with you or have sex with you is not being nice, it’s being misleading.

    • yourestupidashell

      its like the whole point of the article just flew above your head and floated away and you just made something up. youre an idiot. learn to read. or get off the internet. i have a feeling youre a man with a tiny angry little penis

    • Mimi

      You’re missing the point. No one is saying guys aren’t allowed to feel hurt after being rejected by the girl they like. We’re saying guys should stop calling women bitches for having the right to choose whoever the fuck they want to go out with.

    • http://twitter.com/alisse_marie Alisse Marie

      You didn’t even try.

  • Gabi

    I´m
    saying this as a constructive criticism.. I really like the blog and
    this subject is very important (I myself have been acused of it several
    times).. But I felt that your text jumped from the “simple” problem into
    the male opression too fast. I know they are related, but if you don´t
    elaborate the links better, people who don´t understand feminist ideals
    will just think you´re overreacting. I hope you understand what I mean, I
    don´t think you are overreacting.. But I also think that part of being a
    feminist is trying to educate people about sex equality. And if you
    don´t slow down the arguments and logic a bit, people might not
    understand why such subjects are important. I´ve felt this on some other
    posts from the blog (but not all), and I hope my criticism will help.. I
    really care about female rights. Congrats for the blog and the
    initiative

  • Xerxes

    Yeah, telling a girl she’s a bitch for rejecting you is a shitty thing to do, but that’s not what the friendzone is…
    No you’re not a bitch for turning a guy down, but denying a man’s truly felt emotions? Yeah, you’re a bitch for that.

    • Raebear

      “denying a man’s truly felt emotions? Yeah, you’re a bitch for that.” Wait, wait. So if a man has “truly felt emotions” for me then I should just give in? What about my truly felt emotions? Women do not exist just to give men whatever they want. I have a right to accept or deny “emotions” directed at me, no matter how truly they are felt.
      Guess I’m just a bitch though. :)

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000462248480 Chris Sherwood

        Maybe he means deflecting (as in forcing the man into the friendzone by manipulating his feelings (which is silly but some guys tend to believe all women manipulate guys’ feelings)).
        But yes, as it stands, his sentence is contradictory.

      • Grotoff

        Yeah, probably.

    • Anon

      Poor baby. I ignored your precious man feels? Hey, wait, what about my feelings? A “friend” of mine, which I really wasn’t attracted to (he was really fat, way older than me and wanted a serious relationship, with kids, I was 2o and he was 29) asked me out FIFTEEN TIMES, I said no everytime, he even tried to have sex with me once, I froze before telling him “no, I really don’t want to”, then avoided him, and when I told him I had a new boyfriend, he accused me of “playing with his feelings”. That’s the friendzone for you : manbabies unable to understand that women are FREAKING HUMAN BEINGS, not sex toys that will do everything you want just because you have feelings.
      By using the friendzone, you’re denying US the very RIGHT to have our OWN FEELINGS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000462248480 Chris Sherwood

    You imply that sex is the only basis for a relationship and therefore the only reason why guys lament being put into the friend-zone. Except there is so much more to a relationship than just sex. Most guys in the friend-zone stay there because they share interests (hence, why they wanted to date in the first place). Girls are not sluts for saying yes, just as they are not sluts for saying yes any other time.

    Normally, they aren’t considered evil for turning down the dogged nice guys either. There will probably be some lingering resentment on the part of the guy but if he did really like her, that will fade quickly. However, the resentment won’t fade if the *other* stereotype about the friend-zone happens: if the girl dates “bad” guys and complains about them. When a guy gets turned down, he understands that he is lacking in a certain quality the girl is looking for. But if that girl turns around and dates guys who he feels are inferior to him (especially abusive or cheating guys), then he’s going to feel very frustrated.

    Of course, in most cases the nice guy is just setting high standards for the girl’s dates from that point on (which no guys can actually meet) and has only himself to blame for any resentment. However, you can see why a guy would consider the girl turning him down to be evil, regardless of whether it’s justified or not, and that it’s a long process rather than an instantaneous decision.

    • riiiight

      OK so here’s why that stuff isn’t OK… If you choose to stay *friends* with a woman after she turns down your advances, then she isn’t obligated not to date other men and you talk to your friends about your love life. Now yeah sure you can be sensitive and think “well this guy liked me so I’ll try and be aware of this so I don’t hurt his feelings more”, but you aren’t the judge of who is better for her – she is. Its not a competition over who is the ‘superior man’ and no, its not OK to call her names and insult her because she chose someone you don’t think is as good as you. Of course it is hugely frustrating when a friend dates an abusive man – I have been in that place and it is heartbreaking, but because she is being abused not because she ‘chose that’ (she didn’t) or ‘chose that over you’. What you might need good is question why you have stayed friends with her and often with those attitudes its in the hope she will wear down and give in to you eventually.that’s really not OK. Getting your heart broken sucks but no one owes you anything because they said no to you.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000462248480 Chris Sherwood

        Of course she can date other men. Of course, the guy could do that as well… .

        I believe I did point out that it is the guy’s fault for feeling resentment at anyone the girl dates. Mostly because it is *entirely* her choice. In fact, make that “Entirely because.”

        In the case of the “nice” guy calling her names and insulting her for turning him down, I think all such guys (like Manny, from the story) should look in a mirror and figure it out; if having a tantrum is their only way of dealing with rejection, then they obviously do not belong in a serious relationship.

        “Wearing her down” is kind of a stereotype of guys, though. Some of my friends have considered dating each other but (because otherwise this would not make sense) decided to remain friends after either breaking up or not dating at all. And they have remained friends. Of course, this could be part of the rules: if they were friends before it, they should remain friends after. If they were just two people looking for chemistry and finding none, both should move on.

        • http://twitter.com/gia1haiti gia elie

          Great reply. Especially about nice guy tantrum.

          Emotions like longing and desire can make us “crazy” sometimes. But it’s very important not to use these Emotions as Scapegoats for anyone (male or female) to be treated with disrespect and cruelty.

          A person is Not suddenly your Enemy because they don’t want to be with you. The impulse to get back at them some way, shows a complete lack of empathy and self-control.

          • Grotoff

            People who use others for their own benefit in a faux “friendship” are the ones at fault. It’s not a question of, “I don’t want to be with you” “man, she’s a bitch.” It’s “let’s be friends and I’ll get you to do everything for me and treat you like shit” “Oh, ok… we might get together eventually?” “meh, who knows.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/meisha.apocalypse Meisha Virtue

    There is no such thing as the “friendzone”. There is only “friends” and “dating”. If you’re only friends with a girl or guy to get into their pants and drop out of their life once they turn you down, you’re just a shitty shit. If you develop feelings for your friend and they reject you, they’re not bad people, and you need to decide whether you can swallow your hurt and embarrassment and continue to be their friend or if you need to move on, at least for awhile.

    • dedo

      I don’t understand why everyone is making this so black and white. Life isn’t like that, life is messy, life is a lot of different colors.

      Different scenarios:
      If I see someone I like and get close to them to know them better and eventually try and date them; in that case I’m not interested in friendship right off the bat… why does that make me a shitty shit? If she turns me down then I’m probably out of her life (without calling her names). She has the choice to not start a romantic relationship; do I not have the choice of ending a friendly relationship? Granted, if she made a really cool impression and it seems like we could hang then yes, maybe we’ll stay friends, but that isn’t always the case. Some girls can hang and we’ll be best buds even after I’ve given it a shot, but some can’t.

      On the other hand maybe I’ve never seen a certain woman as someone I’d date, but something developed and I tried to make it a romantic relationship. In that case odds are we’ll stay friends, but even I’ve had the occasion where I fell head over heels in love with someone and the feelings weren’t reciprocated. It hurts to be around that person and I’d rather not deal with the emotional turmoil. Why do I have to “man up” and keep being friends? If I don’t I’m suddenly a dickhead that just wants to get in her pants and nothing else matters? Sounds sexist to me. My emotional well-being isn’t as important as hers? That doesn’t sound fair at all.

      And then there’s the relationship that lies in the most nebulous region of all, the on-again, off-again semi-relationship. We’re friends and live far apart. If we see each other and sparks fly… then we let it happen. If we see each other and aren’t single… then nothing will happen. We may not always talk, but we know (at least I like to think so) that we’re there for each other if we really need help (some emergency or whatever; I know I’d drive hours at midnight if she was ever in dire straits).

      Point is, life isn’t black and white; people need to stop being so idealistic about this stuff; and people need to calm down and realize that although it’s okay to be selfish, not everything is about them. Maybe he doesn’t want to stay friends because it hurts him too much, maybe he just doesn’t think you can hang, maybe he will stay friends, maybe he’s found someone else. It could be a whole host of reasons. Life isn’t clear, cut & dry. Stop trying to make it seem like it is.

  • Grotoff

    Fuck this shit. The friendzone is absolutely real, if not restricted by gender. Eponine?

    Saying no isn’t the same as friendzoning someone. When you use a person, getting them to perform as if they were your boyfriend/girlfriend, but have no interest in them romantically? Yes, you suck. Marius was a huge asshat to Eponine, for example.

    People of the appropriate genders/orientations to be in love with each other can’t be friends unless it is very explicit that romance is completely off the table. Otherwise, you are being dicks to each other and probably to your actual romantic partners.

    • you’re an idiot

      lul ‘appropriate genders and orientations’. Also, what consitutes ‘using someone as if they were your partner’, you mean…talking to them about your problems…hanging out with them…hugging them…spending time with them…YOU MEAN FRIENDSHIP?!

  • Marci Douglas

    I feel the need to point this out here, too… I think it depends on the situation whether the concept of the ‘friendzone’ is valid. First though, lets be clear that being put in the friendzone happens to both genders. Now, if the person in question has been a friend for a long time, had feelings for the other person and never said anything about those feelings, it’s absurd to expect the other person to read your mind and know that you want a romantic relationship. However, if the situation is that you’ve been friends for a long time, and DO tell the other person that you have romantic feelings, only to have the other tell you they’re not interested, that can be a pretty frustrating situation. Being a friend does not entitle you to have a chance at a relationship, but if you’ve had a crush on someone and been friends first in order to get to know them, it is really sad to get blown off by someone you’ve been smitten with.

    • Shea

      It is situational, I agree. Some guys that are “friend-zoned” initially because the girl doesn’t really know the guy. But there should be mutual interest and attraction on some level for a friendship to cross into a relationship. Attraction is instant, but falling in love (at least in my case) takes time. Some women (and maybe a few men) just want to take things slow and see what happens naturally. Usually, in real friendships, there is some compatibility in personality for even a friendship to last long. I think the kind of friendzoning she is referring to is saying “just friends” as a way to soften the blow of rejection. It can be argued that this method is crueler, but rejection sucks either way. I try not to lead guys on and be more direct when I am not interested. Unfortunately, I am not as direct when I am interested, but that is irrelavant to this discussion.

  • Shea

    Thank you for this. I completely agree. Why is it that guys only seen to act nice toward girls because they expect something more? Being nice should be the bare minimum of being a genuinely kind person. I have turned down several guys because I am not interested in them romantically at all. I know what unrequited love feels like and it sucks, but I backed off and moved on. I would never try to force a guy to love me because true love does not go against free will. I don’t feel anybody (man or woman) should be pressured or guilted into being with someone they don’t want. It ends poorly for both parties. This is a serious issue.

  • So much wrong

    So much wrong with this, since most of the basis for a friendzone is the person being kept around in lieu of a boyfriend or girlfriend, possibly acting like a boyfriend/girlfriend for the person. Newsflash, you can be in the friendzone and still be having sexual relations with someone. Or you can be someones best friend who hears about all the shitty guys out there, who finds out about abusive boyfriends, cheating boyfriends, who despite being there always isn’t considered anything more. Does it suck? Yes, yes it does. Does the girl always know what she is doing when she does this? Probably not.

    Trying to get any kind of “payback” though, doesn’t mean the person is a nice guy. HOWEVER, being that the subject of this post is a TELEVISION SHOW, the internal monologue of an injured person is not as complex or subtle as real life. Thus most characters going through some form of drama, sadness, anger etc will be saying their feelings as loudly as possible, for the audience to “get it”.

    Saying no to someone isn’t “putting them in the friendzone” It’s a misuse of the word. Saying no to someone while at the same time constantly looking for someone “just like them” is the friendzone.

  • Super Lous

    Get over it. The friend zone is just a way, usually in jest, to describe what happened. I’ve been “friend zoned” multiple times and I don’t hold anything against them. I understand. But when a girl considers a guy “just a friend” while the guy has feelings for her, he’s faced with a tough choice. Either stick it out as a non-sexual entity and risk getting hurt down the road or end the friendship because they’re both looking for something different. 999 times out of 1000, the girl is looking for someone else if said guy sticks around. Which is usually why I end the friendship, on good terms, because I know both of us are looking for something different and I would just end up getting hurt down the line. Us guys are stereotyped as well. We either have active sex lives and “getting some” or we’re considered gay. Don’t think you’re the only gender.

  • fureinahs

    I’m sorry, but it is you is misusing the term ‘friend zone’ for your own purposes.

    A zone can go both ways. A zone is not just unrequited attraction. It is a mutual borderline attraction, that eventually when one party misreads or fails to read the situation, the other party can lose interest completely. Or when one party recognises the others attraction, and takes advantage of their dependance purposefully, and continually puts off addressing the obvious tension.

  • Cereal Killah

    First, Manny didn’t yell at her for “friendzoning” him. Second, he merely stated his disapproval of her rejecting his advances; while she is within her own right to turn him down, so was Manny to express himself, and he did that respectfully. Simply put, he was blunt… with that he wanted all of her or nothing at all and because she offered a fraction of herself to him he basically said “no thanks, peace out.” There was no “You’re a bitch for not liking me” or any of that thrown out there, the main problem with friendzoning guys is that in most cases women know that these guys want them and and then said men become exploitable.
    This is the point of origin where the antifriendzoning uprising in us men began. For the mature, level headed man that can accept rejection, all we’re really saying is “Don’t insult me with giving me just the pepperoni when i want the whole slice.” If a man is into you, understand that offering friendship does nothing for him, consolation prizes those shyts are for the birds. I can’t say women are wrong for offering friendship to these men, because they aren’t, but don’t get all bitchy when that guy rejects your consolation prize and insults it (read that again, he’s insulting your offer, not you) because he has better things to do with his time.

  • jim

    Youre completely right you dont have to say yes if you don’t want to but if yiu turn down the nice guy dont bitch about dating assholes. You chose that, the guy is an asshole its your fault for dating him not the other way around.

  • http://roymarvelous.com/ roy marvelous ϟ

    Woah. I thought “friendzone” just meant you like someone but not romantically. Guys can friendzone women too. Why so sensitive?

  • Rosey Posey

    So, let me get this straight. If a guy is respectful towards me, it’s because he wants to get into my pants? Well, no need to worry about getting “friendzoned” by me, asshats like you aren’t even with my acknowledgement.

    • Mgregs

      But you just acknowledged me lol. Silly girls I guess I am WORTH it. Want to know why? Because girls like you don’t even realize that they’re in the middle of the most fun game us guys play. It’s called the chase. Yahoo see, while you sit there explaining how your cousin totally stole your idea for your living room lay out some poor schmuck will be sitting there so upset for you. If it were me I’d probably break out a napkin and a pen and ask you to draw it out or something like that. You won’t know I couldn’t care less I’m just playing the game that you’re forcing me to play. Having to respect you in order to sleep with you.

      Now let’s just say I don’t want to sleep with you. After you tell me that story, I’ll tell you about the girl in college we called el pukeacabra because this girl from some south American country we didn’t remember puked on our couch after one of us slept with her.

      Do you see the difference? Guy one “respects” you and cares what you’re saying. Guy two is just hanging with someone he can hang with. We tell you this story because if we are hanging out with you, we probably think you’re cool enough to handle a good college story. Same guy, two different responses and you’ll never be able to tell the difference because you have forced us into a life where we need to perfect chance. A little piece of advice if you don’t want to deal with that, if you sit down and act like a lady maybe some of us will

      • KashyaCharsi

        Evil girls we are, forcing guys to feign basic decency to half of humanity just so you can fool and use us. Clearly we are the bad guy here.

        • Mgregs

          At least the point got across. The morals of it are up for anyone’s judgement.

  • Mgregs

    I’m not saying assume anything. I’m just saying if a guy treats you with chivalry gets you a drink, or listens to some story you have that you barely care about then he probably wants to sleep with you. If you’re a “pretty” or “cute” girl I would tell you most guys would sleep with you without knowing much about you (maybe a name or something). I’m not saying you could find 80% men in a bar on a Friday night that would take you on a nice date and get in a relationship with a girl but I could find 80% of a bar that would sleep with a girl without too many words being exchanged

  • Michael Houser

    Personally, i consider it only friendzoned when she knows you like her, doesn’t return the feelings, but enjoys the attention. So she does “just enough.” Just enough to keep him interested. Tease him a little bit, flirt with him and enjoy the ego boost. He’s not really your friend, you only offered your friendship because you wanted to spare his feelings. She only calls when she’s bored and the guy that has her in the friends with benefits zone (cause if she had a real boyfriend, she wouldn’t need you) is busy and she doesn’t want to be alone on a Friday night, she’s broke and she wants you to take her out, or she’s upset that she’s stuck in the zone and needs someone to unload on. But as soon as she see’s you flirting with another woman ( especially if the other woman is equally interested), she gets insanely jealous. Not because she all of a sudden realized that you were a good guy, but because the OTHER girl sees that you are.

  • Bill Brown

    FACT: Friend-zone is real, even if it’s an imaginary place in a guys head (?)
    FACT: Boys and boyish men get put there
    FACT: She might be using you OR just can’t say “No chance, dude.”
    FACT: Friend-zoned guys are in an imaginary world
    FACT: Friend-zoned guys think of “nice” as currency and sex as a commodity
    FACT: Friend-zoned guys have juvenile concepts of adult intimate relationships
    FACT: Friend-zoned guys can’t take clear and obvious hints that they’re not “him”.
    FACT: Friend-zoned guys do not understand human body language
    FACT: Friendzoned guys think of the girl as the prize, and worry about getting “it”.
    FACT: Some women DO date/sleep with a-holes and abusers.
    FACT: Some women DO shamelessly use guys they have no intentions with
    FACT: Some women won’t say “No Chance Bud!” and put off saying it indefinitely

    FICTION: A-holes get the girl, nice guys finish last
    FICTION: All guys who are successful with women *must* be a-holes
    FICTION: It’s okay for a girl to be indirect and keep an interested guy around
    FICTION: If he gives her stuff, affection, gifts, it’s okay and it’s all his fault.
    FICTION: The friend-zoned guy is the victim, the gal is cruel, or a b1tch
    FICTION: The girl with lots of ‘guy friends’ is oblivious and innocent
    FICTION: Guys successful with women are ALL a-holes
    FICTION: All women use men.
    FICTION: All women are fair to men.

    GUYS: If you like her tell her. If you want to date her, ASK HER ON A DATE. If you have feelings for her, express those feelings. If, in her reply, she uses the word NICE in reference to you, this is her being a bit of a wuss (nice hahaha) and doing what they call “letting you down easy” (aka indirectly). If you date her, learn how and when to start TOUCHING a woman (yes GASP! You get to touch her.) On the arm, or shoulder briefly. Then you monitor for facial and body language response… Guys who think of progression of an intimate relationship as various “Bases” and hope to get through all four in a single evening… well, that’s tragically juvenile. If a guy offering you dating advice and refers to “bases”, stop listening at once.

    GALS: Be as direct with us as you want us to be with you. If a guy hangs around for a while and ends up being your girlfriend, maybe grow a pair and tell him “Look, just to be clear – if you want something more, I don’t see there being a you and me, okay?” And no, because a guy willing put himself into the friend-zone does NOT make it morally acceptable to use and abuse this guy like some kind of manservant. That’s the kind of thing that ERODES equality. Feminists who scoff at the friend-zoned man-child while defending a woman who would use such a sorry fellow are not preaching feminism but one sided sexism and female supremacy. Know the difference.

    As for me, I have serious game. But I do treat women too much like friends in a relationship. My own wife “friendzoned” me and left me because I was not a real man but instead this guy with no life who made HER (and the problems I perceived in her) my entire life. Women don’t want that. I learned the hard way. I was a very bitter and angry man about it, but now I know what I did wrong. If you’re a guy (or gal) going out and looking for “projects” to fix and work on, you should stop dating at once and google “codependence”.

    And for God’s sake if she refers to you as nice, move on dude. Just move on.

  • Bill Brown

    “The worst part about the friendzone is that if I say no and you yell at me for putting you in the friendzone, that wasn’t me putting you in the friendzone.”

    1) The sentence above implies the writer DOES believe in a friendzone because she talks about a) the worst part about it b)where she put the guy and c) why it was not her putting him there.
    2)”If I say no…” In your MIND you said no. Here is what you REALLY said.
    “Hahahaha, hee hee, you’re so silly. Silly boy!”
    “Oh gee, you’re so much fun!”
    “Oh gee, I feel like I can tell you anything. I trust you. Like you’re my brother or something.”
    “Oh gee, it’s great to have a friend like you!”
    (While thinking of athletic Billy) “Bobby, will you drive me and the girls to Blabla’s tonite? Yeah? You’re such a GREAT GUY Bobby. MUAH!” (blows kiss)

    3) The guy believes that despite hearing the word FRIEND and BROTHER 1000 times, he can get out of this friendzone somehow. Myself, I think they guys are waiting for an opportunity – for her to be juuuuuuuuuuust drunk enough for him to have the courage to make a move. I gotta say, guys who end up in the friendzone are often really creepy when it comes to how they think about women and their ideas for approaching them. I think they lack confidence and are friend zoned for this very reason. They want a gal SO BADLY and feel they are SO INEPT to get a girlfriend they scare women away with this “RED FLAG” called hyper-neediness and hyper-clinginess and hyper-NICE-ness.

    So, he’s freaking out because he THOUGHT his romantic intentions were known but he never made them. Why? His sneaky way to avoid DIRECT REJECTION is just to BE NICE and hope to dear god that she’ll acknowledge his greatness and chivalry and ASK HIM OUT. His dream is hearing “Will you be my boyfriend?” and he’ll be writing angry misogynistic articles for MRA websites before he ever hears it.

    SHE is freaking out because HE is freaking out because in HER MIND she said “no” when all she REALLY did is NEVER SAID YES despite knowing full well his intentions were romantic in nature (women lie about this shamelessly) and knowing she had ZERO intentions with him romantically.

    I bet any woman alive if you said to ALL OF YOUR MALE FRIENDS TOMORROW “Look, you know we’re just friends right? Like, there is no “me and you” and that’s not going to happen right?”:

    a) She would suddenly have 3 instead of 23 guy friends. And now she knows which 3 are REALLY gay.
    b) The friend zone would implode and vanish like the way evil things vanish at the end of Marvel comic book action movies.
    c) Any guy still in some friend zone would THEN be there 100% by his own doing.

  • Bill Brown

    You’re onto something very true here… very true indeed.
    Women don’t sleep with jerks. They sleep men who are wealthy, or confident, or have excellent physiques, or are handsome, or any combination of those attributes. These guys are often jerks because beautiful wealthy people are often jerks.

    Women don’t chase after b1tches. They chase after women who are good looking, or good looking, or good looking, or hot, or any combination of those attributes. These women are often jerks because beautiful people are often jerks.
    This is not a man thing or woman thing. It’s a HUMAN NATURE THING.
    Let’s face it. Pretty people with money can behave pretty much any way they want and have SOMEONE hanging on their arm. The rest of us have to have nice personalities. And other attributes to bring to the SMP (sexual market place).

    And there are gals who use unreciprocated affection to get men to do nice things for them, and then some go as far as to call that “innocent friendship”.
    And there are guys who do the same thing.

    Then there are guys and gals who are probably TRULY surprised when they find out that the person who is giving them rides, and buying the pizza, and doing their laundry has a romantic interest in them.

    POLL: Of all the people who have a twitter-pated love-sick admirer, how many TRULY do not know about their “friends” romantic intentions simply because they were never once spelled out in clear language?
    I’m gonna put it out there. I think maybe 5% are HONESTLY surprised. Even though they will ALL act surprised! ;)

    It’s human nature. When you’re in demand, you get stuff.
    Don’t hate me because I am beautiful! They think.
    We don’t hate you. Oh, hey, if you’re going to the store can you get a bag of ice and some more Doritos? Thanks girl, you’re the best!”
    She’s such a good friend that one…

  • Bill Brown

    Let me take another shot at this…

    “Friendzone” is when the hopeful is too afraid to make their true intentions known and the pursued is too afraid to be direct about not having a romantic interest in the hopeful. Thus, a usually awkward and often bad-ending situation develops where a person who’s romantic interests are being denied yet they continue to remain hopeful that a long period of “nice” can win over the pursued. Although a romantic relationship can sometimes develop, more often the hopeful remains a friend (if friendship is really what they want) or the hopeful will leave the friendship, often resentfully, if they were just using the friendship to try and establish a romantic relationship.

    It works both ways – and applies equally for both sexes. So a hopeful and a pursuer can be either sex, i.e., male/female, female/male, male/male, female/female.

    One thing that is interesting is how detractors of the friendzone claim that by being passive or using “subtle hints” (“Hi bud!”) they are in effect saying NO, but this is a bit of a stretch. Seldom does it seem that the word no is ever used, or that the pursued is very direct about their lack of desire to be romantically involved with the hopeful. The best way to stop this situation would be to say:

    “Thanks for the date invite, but I am just not interested in you romantically. You seem nice, but you’re not my type I am sorry.”

    DO NOT ADD “…so let’s just be friends.”

    99% of the time the pursued would rather NOT be friends with someone they just met, and is just saying that to make saying it easier.

    The only time one should say that is when the friendship has already been established, and it’s a good friendship:

    “Oh, I was unaware that you wanted to try and take our friendship to a more intimate level… I just don’t see us being a couple, and I value our friendship so I hope we can continue to be friends…

    Here the friendship is indicate as being in a bit of a jeopardized status: “I HOPE we still can be friends” means if the pursuer does not back off and resume the friend status, the friendship could be in jeopardy.

    But saying “Maybe we can be just friends instead” to a new hopeful is asking for trouble… especially if the pursued plans to only use subtle hints and clues to ward off the unwanted romantic advance.

  • Mgregs

    HA! I have never and would never complain about the friendzone simply because I don’t put myself in a scenario to be stuck there. The friendliness implies that you are actual “Friends” with a girl. I have friends, five of them, and they’re called my best friends. Why in God’s name would I spend my free time explaining references and the way sports are played? I know, “Not all girls are like that!” However all girls your average guy is looking to date isn’t “like that”. We don’t want that, it is unattractive. So with no need to be friends with girls there really isn’t too much room for that pesky friendliness.

  • Rashaun Stovall

    Sounds like someone who hasn’t had a date since a date had them. You REALLY should get over yourself. And your pants.