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Feminspire | April 24, 2014

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The Fedora Isn’t the Problem – The Men Wearing Them Are

The Fedora Isn’t the Problem – The Men Wearing Them Are

There appears to be a mostly-unspoken dichotomy regarding the recent trend of fedora-wearing: that of the men who wear and love them, and that of the women who avoid men who wear them. It’s not the most recent style of headwear for either men or women, nor is it by any means universally considered likable or stylish. Yet for the past few years, it’s been a persistently-worn article of clothing, and one that has taken severe beatings from feminists and other women fed up with the men who insist on wearing them–men who either deny the stigma or are unaware of it.

The stigma, popularized by blogs such as Fedoras of OKC and the now-defunct You Shouldn’t Wear That Fedora, is simple: the fedora has, for many, come to symbolize “Nice Guys”–men (often Reddit users and/or gamers and/or self-proclaimed “nerds”) who insist that they are “nice guys” for not overtly making their romantic or sexual intentions clear, while shaming women for not being interested in them (a la “nice guys finish last”) and bemoaning the dreaded “Friendzone,” in which a woman denies or ignores his advances and chooses instead to just be platonic with said “nice guy.” Another, more vitriolic (and possibly more truthful) definition of the Friendzone is provided by my fellow Feminspire writer Alisse Desrosiers:

“The Friend Zone is a bullshit, misogynistic, make-believe land Nice Guys have come up with to demonize women for not wanting to date them. They use it as an excuse to ignore the fact that there are Actual Reasons behind their decision to not pursue a relationship or have sex with this guy. You know, like not being physically attracted to them. Or not being able to connect with them. Or seeing through their crap and realizing that the only reason these guys are even friends with them in the first place is so they can get laid.”

Basically, “nice guys” suck. We all know this. It’s not just feminists who think so–everyone from Randall Munroe (the man behind the popular webcomic xkcd) to BuzzFeed to Cracked agrees that “nice guys” are the worst. Ditto for the Friendzone, which is synonymous with the “nice guy syndrome.” So what does that have to do with fedoras? Isn’t it, like, just a hat?

Not exactly. Beyond all the blogs and articles making fun of and criticizing the “nicer” fedora-wearers, there remain the correlations between men who wear fedoras, the misogyny of Reddit, geek and “troll” cultures (trigger warning for the last three links for rape, misogyny, and transmisogyny), and the overwhelming absurdity and sexism of the “nice guy.” One needn’t even Google “fedoras and nice guys” to become aware of how intertwined the two are–all a woman has to do is sit at a bar and wait for the first fedora’d man who approaches her to attempt to engage her in some sad attempt at banter about how “there are so many jerks in this bar” and “you look like you could use a really good man in your life” (seriously, these are direct quotes). I can only speak for myself and my friends, who have been steadily learning how to take care of ourselves and each others in bars since our 21st birthdays, but it’s a defense mechanism to avoid the gaze of men wearing fedoras in bars (and on the street, and on online dating sites, and basically everywhere on the Internet, including feminist “safe spaces”) because more likely than not, those same men are going to be the ones bothering, annoying, or harassing us if we give them the chance. Often, they don’t even need to be given the chance–these fedora’d “nice guy”s don’t respect women nearly as much as they claim they do, and definitely don’t respect their disinterest or their consent (or lack thereof).

Of course, every person wearing a fedora is not a “nice guy”–it remains a popular style, and has been seen on the heads of stars and nobodies alike. Women wear them, too. And while I personally find the trend of wearing fedoras with casual wear heinous and far too reminiscent of when I was a Jason Mraz fan, I respect anyone’s decision to wear whatever they choose, because self-expression is an important part of my life and I believe that everyone has a right to that. That doesn’t mean, however, that I’m going to date someone who is so clearly out-of-touch with these sorts of perceptions–to me, it’d be tantamount to dating a guy with a neckbeard, which, for those who aren’t aware, are similarly nerdy gamer Reddit-types who are similarly sexist and completely unaware of what women want and what feminism actually is. In fact, neckbeards and fedoras often coincide.

Neckbeards aside–I’m not here to tell anyone not to wear a fedora. Style decisions are up to the person whose body is being adorned, and as someone who has struggled all my life with what I should and shouldn’t wear so I won’t look “fat” or “slutty” or any other stupid ass label that keeps women from dressing how they want to, I’m not in the business of being the style police. I am, however, in the business of telling men that unless their fedora is accompanied by a three-piece suit, they’re likely to be judged as a brony-MRA-redditor and therefore not score. That’s just a fact.

Written by Noor Al-Sibai 

  • Sarah Gay

    I’m really glad for this article, because my boyfriend has a fedora that I used to throw across the room..he rarely wears it anymore, and he’s definitely not THAT guy, in any way. But I still see the thing as a warning sign on most guys–no, I’m not going to decide that I hate a guy or be rude to them just for wearing it, but I will probably avoid communication with them until given a reason not to.

    • http://www.facebook.com/guffy.xux Steve Smith

      So not judgemental.

      • niggity

        wow

    • JonathanNathan

      As a guy, if I see a guy wearing a fedora, I know there’s an 85% chance I won’t really enjoy hanging out with him.

      • emjaysea

        Wow, you’re really showing your douche-bagging best here, aren’t you. “Hey look, there’s a guy wearing a hat I don’t like! Let’s just assume that he is similarly unlikable!” I’m guessing you’re no older than 21.

        • JonathanNathan

          I didn’t say I had a problem with the hat. But if I’ve never met a person I liked who wore a fedora, I’m gonna make assumptions.

          Also I’m 27.

          • whatever

            Replace fedora with a skin colour. Wow. You’re a horrible person. Simple rule: generalisations are often incorrect and usually a very bad idea

  • Vivid Sammy

    I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell us, people who wear fedora’s are bad people, gamer guys with neck-beards are bad people… because they are not. Please don’t stigmatise people based on their style. That’s not what women want, that’s not what men want and its unfair and narrow minded. I am however very happy you addressed the ‘friendzone’ humor and the ‘nice guy’ lie. Totally agree with you there, what a bunch of losers. But again… please don’t judge people based on their looks.

    • JonathanNathan

      If a guy looks very similar to the way a lot of other guys, who are assholes, look, I think I’m probably going to continue to presume that the guy is an asshole. I may ultimately find out I’m wrong, but specifically with the fedora, it literally has not happened yet.

      • General Zod

        By that logic all muslims are terrorists.

        • JonathanNathan

          No, that’s not really the same thing.

          • General Zod

            Because….

      • guest

        Ever met a Rabbi? I’ll bet he was wearing a fedora. What an asshole.

        You’re an idiot. Your logic is weak and self-defeating. This article’s argument is an insult to feminism. Talk about warning signs in conversation; talk about personality traits and patterns of behavior that ought to send up red flags; talk about how to REALLY protect yourself and stick up for yourself, while still being open, happy, and capable of fully enjoying life and the people you can encounter regardless of what they are wearing (regardless of gender, or preference or skin color, or religion, or hairstyle, or weight, or any other arbitrary external identifier). Talk about any of these things. But to argue that people who wear x are y, invariably, until someone wearing x proves otherwise, is EXTREMELY foolish. This is a garbage, empty, vapid, shallow article – and you have a garbage, empty, vapid, shallow mindset.

        • JonathanNathan

          OK, addendum: I have never met a guy in a fedora who was not acting in his capacity as a religious official who wasn’t an asshole. You satisfied?

          “Your logic is weak and self-defeating.”–Why am I required to have a logical reason for thinking someone’s an asshole? Jesus Christ, has anyone’s viewpoint on assholes ever been policed the way mine have been in this comments section?

          “But to argue that people who wear x are y, invariably, until someone wearing x proves otherwise, is EXTREMELY foolish. This is a garbage, empty, vapid, shallow article – and you have a garbage, empty, vapid, shallow mindset.”–You seem to have confused me with the writer of this article. I did not write this article. Feminspire’s contributors are, I believe, all women. I am not a woman. So that could have been a clue right there. But no, I didn’t write the article. I just don’t like guys who wear fedoras. Maybe that’s foolish, but whatever. Some articles of clothing are red flags. I see a guy wearing a Tapout shirt, he’s probably an asshole. I see a guy wearing a Nickelback shirt, he’s probably an asshole. I see a white guy with a backwards baseball cap, he’s probably an asshole. I see a guy wearing a fedora, he’s probably an asshole. Sorry, that’s the way it is.

  • loveandpickles

    Can we please stop equating MRAs with Redditors? I’m a really happy redditor. The site has its share of creepy “nice guys”, but the whole point of Reddit is that the user experience can be customized and curated to meet individual interests. I don’t know if you’ve ever been on the r/TwoXChromosomes subreddit, but it often posts empowering feminist content. There are also some really supportive communities in re: mental health issues and a lot of other supportive communities. Reddit’s got its messed up subsections, and that’s a valid criticism of the site, but to lump ALL of Reddit under the same umbrella is really problematic and minimizes the GOOD that’s on the site.

    • JonathanNathan

      If Reddit wants to be a place where the user experience can be customized and curated to meet individual interests, then the Reddit community is going to need to get used to the fact that when you provide a comfortable haven for horrible people, you’ll be judged by association.

      • emjaysea

        You seem to be missing the point that one can customize one’s Reddit experience, though no amount of customization will get rid of creeps, but then, they’re everywhere, not just on Reddit.

        • JonathanNathan

          I’m not missing it. I’m just refusing to accept it as an excuse.

      • whatever

        You’re on the internet. Some of the worst things known to man occur on here. I think you’d better follow your own argument and log off

  • http://www.facebook.com/guffy.xux Steve Smith

    Funny how feminists say women shouldn’t judge women on what they wear yet it seems okay for feminists to do it to men.

    • General Zod

      I think this article is pretty funny actually. Just as I would think a similar article about the female equivalent (bitter feminist with political slogans everywhere) would be funny.

      Chill out, it’s the internet.

  • TheComrade

    So let me get this straight…

    My beloved fedora of many years when it adorns my head is communicating to most women that I am a brony redditor? I don’t think most women (or men) even know what a brony or a redditor is.

    Glad I moved to the desert- It’s too hot to wear it here. Looks like I dodged a bullet!

    • dude

      Reddit called the front page of the internet, How are most not gonna know about it?

  • Dennis O’Brien

    I have to wonder how warmly the readers/editors of this website would welcome an article titled “The (article X of women’s clothing) isn’t the problem, the women wearing them are.”

    • JonathanNathan

      When hundreds of thousands of women start forcibly sodomizing men with broomsticks, and then joking about it online like it’s nothing, and they all happen to wear a particular item of clothing, you might see an article like that. Until then, shut up.

      • Dennis O’Brien

        That’s a sorry excuse for discourse, Jonathan. If you have a legitimate point to make, by all means make it, but please do so respectfully. I daresay there is more than enough reactionary rhetoric in the social justice debate already.

        At minimum, you should provide a citation or two for your hundreds-of-thousands-of-broomstick-rapes statistic. If you want to be taken seriously, that is. Or would you rather just beat your chest at me and pretend that you’re checking your privilege when you attempt to check mine?

        • JonathanNathan

          I’m supposed to provide a citation for something that has not happened and probably never will? I wasn’t claiming that men are sodomizing women with broomsticks. I was just coming up with something that would be (maybe) equally as violating to a man as rape is to a woman.

          As for “checking your privilege,” I don’t know what that means. I don’t speak buzzword, I speak English.

          • dlzero

            http://www.genderratic.com/p/836/manufacturing-female-victimhood-and-marginalizing-vulnerable-men/

            You mean like the near equal amount of women that rape men? Or is that not as traumatic?

          • JonathanNathan

            Oh you’re just precious, aren’t you.

          • chris

            Care to cite sources to the contrary then? If sources claiming that forcing a man to engage in vaginal intercourse is not degrading and traumatic, and that reports of that happening in a similar volume to men raping women were debunked so long ago that you find them boring, then I’m sure you’ll have no problem educating us poor benighted potential rapists as to why we’re wrong, both factually and morally, for suggesting that anything that happens to men could ever be as traumatic as what happens to women.

            Sarcasm aside, either women are the weaker sex, or they’re not. I personally believe that they’re not, and that being the case, rape is no more traumatic – on an emotional level at least – for them than it is for men. Also, either an erection counts as consent, or it does not. Given that men become erect as a result of nothing more than physical attraction, which often causes embarrassment when it occurs in inappropriate situations (as anyone who’s ever been an adolescent boy can tell you), an erection cannot be taken to mean consent.

            Don’t get me wrong – rape is a worse problem in some countries than others; particularly in places where the “punishment” for rape is marrying your victim. That’s messed up and it needs to change. But as a male rape victim, don’t you dare tell me that what I went through wasn’t just as bad. Don’t you fucking dare.

            Good day.

          • JonathanNathan

            I didn’t say that men being raped isn’t as bad as women being raped. Not sure where you saw me saying that, but let me put that to bed. I didn’t say that. I did say that your warped statistics on men being raped as OFTEN as women are wrong, because literally every credible source on the subject says they are wrong.

            Please don’t punish every woman in the world for what one person did.

          • Ohone

            I thought the equivalent was a woman forcing a man to penetrate her, which seems to be happening at equal rates when you look at sources that actually collect data on female rapists).

          • JonathanNathan

            Oh I see you’re bringing out that old debunked chestnut. *yawn*

          • Ohone

            I see you are using sarcasm to make false claims about rape.

          • Jonathon Robert Cowley

            I’m sure you’ll have no problem citing some of these sources then.

          • EvilPundit

            “Mansplaining” is a buzzword.

          • JonathanNathan

            OK sweetcheeks.

          • Jonathon Robert Cowley

            An excellent and useful one at that, given the sheer volume of mansplaining that goes on. If mansplaining wasn’t already now a word, someone would have to invent it.

          • Benjamin is a Dumbass

            It’s actually something a 5 year old would say.

      • emjaysea

        You’re implying that hundreds of thousands of fedora wearing men are raping women. The article itself seems to be making a somewhat softer claim that a large number of fedora wearing men are misogynists at best, and some number of those are something worse. It seems to me that in either case this theory that fedora wearing men are by-and-large abusive towards women is unsubstantiated–I certainly haven’t seen any research done on the subject–and is most likely fueled by a media frenzy, where in this case the media vector is that of social media. In other words, before one perpetuates what is most likely (almost certainly) nothing more than a stereotype, one might want to find some reliable research that backs such damning claims up.

        • JonathanNathan

          Oh for God’s sake don’t be so pedantic. The point is that the reason it’s completely different to talk about what an article of men’s clothing symbolizes than to talk about what an article of women’s clothing symbolizes is that women aren’t out there violating men willy-nilly and then giggling about it on the internet. Jesus, quit mansplaining.

          • emjaysea

            Don’t get your underwear in a knot, you’re point is taken, but that doesn’t set aside the fact that you appear to be stereotyping.

          • emjaysea

            I have to add, you’re doing nothing but arrogantly condescending in your responses here, so how is that not the very definition of “mansplaining”? That’s rhetorical–just something for you to think about.

          • JonathanNathan

            If you weren’t so wrong I wouldn’t have to condescend. But no, it’s not mansplaining.

          • General Zod

            By that same logic, if enough african americans boast about criminals commited against white people, you can rightfully judge them.

          • JonathanNathan

            Nope, you’re still not really getting what logic is.

          • General Zod

            Saying “No” isn’t an argument.

          • Ohone

            Men aren’t out there violating women willy-nilly and then giggling about it on the internet about it either.

          • JonathanNathan

            Apparently we’re not looking at the same internet.

          • Ohone

            You shouldn’t say things that aren’t true about rape.

          • dude

            Maybe if you visit 4chan frequently then you might but those are teenagers, not mature men

          • JonathanNathan

            I never visit 4chan or Reddit unless someone is linking me to yet another post/comment/thread about how funny rape is.

          • Johnnyboy

            John. Just have your sex change operation already. I know you’re dying to meet a nice guy in a Fedora. Just don’t buy him a broom for xmas, he’s not going to understand what you want him to do with it. XD

          • JonathanNathan

            I see what you did there. Only a woman could have opinions like mine, right? Way to make the case for men with fedoras.

          • Dude

            It is not like all women are saints and never hurt men right?

          • JonathanNathan

            Did I say all women are saints and never hurt men? I don’t think I did. I think I said women don’t go out and violate men all the time and then laugh about it on the internet. And the reason I think I said that is because it’s like right up there above your comment.

        • Andy

          Forget the stupid article of clothing. The fedora is just tied to this group by happenstance (accidental self-identification of scumbags). The point of this article is this despicable “nice guy”/”friend-zone” game. We’ve all heard their entitled whining that a girl they’ve been “working on” hasn’t handed over the action. I’m not one to confirm male stereotypes to suggest they “man up” or “get some balls” but confidence attracts and weezel games do not. They need to try to respect themselves to imagine that a real woman might genuine appreciate who they are enough to be attracted without some bullshit entitlement tricks. “nice” is good and it is appreciated but honesty and respect cannot be avoided. These creatures have repulsed me before I knew of the fedora association. The hat itself is nothing but some arbitrary self identification sign of solidarity like the gay dude’s limp wrist and the valley-girl’s talking pattern of “like”s. Focus on the sick and wrong high horse victim mentality and entitlement in exchange for them pretending to be a friend.

  • fernando Rivera Jr.

    Is this satire?

    People should be able to wear what they want without having to deal with ridiculous judgement about what their values are.

    Get real.

    • Alla Konoplianik

      Tell that to the thousands that judge women and their value entirely by what they wear lol

      • Mujibar

        So it’s ok to do it because other people did it first? What are you, 12?

        • Alla Konoplianik

          Where exactly have I said that it’s ok, love?

      • regeya

        I see.

        So two wrongs make a right.

      • MVW

        There’s a difference between wearing a hat or having a certain style of beard and not wearing hardly anything at all.
        Go around with your ass hanging out – get judged

      • Sam Wilkinson

        You mean other women…

    • Jonathon Robert Cowley

      That’s literally what the article says in its concluding paragraph.

    • Helioptile

      Hear, hear.
      I got a fedora today and I just love wearing it. I won’t give an honest shit if anybody thinks I’m part of this stupid “stereotype”.

  • emjaysea

    You’re doing nothing more than perpetuating a stereotype here. While there is undoubtedly a subset of fedora wearing men who are misogynists, that’s going to be true of any group of men, the same as it’s true that a subset of women who dress scandalously (slutty?) are in fact “easy”. Maybe you could write an article that works to dispel the stereotype rather than furthering it?

    • JonathanNathan

      Find me a fedora-wearing man who isn’t misogynist, overtly sexist, and/or pro-patriarchy, and then you can make this claim.

      • Mujibar

        This is incredibly stupid. It’s not up to him to prove to you that you can’t identify someone’s personal beliefs based on the type of hat they’re wearing.

        • JonathanNathan

          In my experience, I can. If he wants me to feel differently, he’ll need to provide a counterexample.

          • Rebecca

            OK. . .so there are a lot of sexist guys who wear fedoras. How about the guys who are NOT wearing fedoras? In my experience, the majority of men who do not wear fedoras in our society are also sexist. Do you really think putting forward the idea that one can accurately judge a person, on sight, based off a superficial fashion choice is likely to keep women safe or lead to radical social change? This seems more part of a discourse by which individual women are encouraged to take personal responsibility for spotting “bad” men so that we can avoid them and spend time with the “good” men instead. . .and if we mess up and get raped anyway. . .well, we were warned. It also seems like all this hoopla about fedoras is a symptom of a consumeristic society that puts great value on people’s appearances and the products they choose to buy. But the sad reality is that there has been sexism in a variety of cultures, including ones in which the fedora was entirely unknown. How does this fedora fascination help us understand the deeper factors that create a patriarchal society, factors that are located in the inside of men’s heads, not on the outside of them?

          • Ricardo Aguilera

            It is quite possible that sexism comes in more shades then what men do. Women are just as capable of sexism as men and to believe men are a collective in regards to sexism is essentialist thinking and very sexist…it’s the same as saying “what goes inside the heads of women to make them want to get raped.”

      • whatever

        That’s like saying “find me a chick in a club wearing one of those backless numbers who isnt a cock hungry slut”, it’s basically a fucking horrible thing to say and shouldnt be perpetrated by EITHER GENDER

      • MVW

        Ian McKellen?

        • JonathanNathan

          Wizard hats aren’t fedoras.

  • General Zod

    Yes, sterotyping is very natural. Look at Jonathan’s post and tell me what it would make him if the “Similar look” of the guys he met was the color of their skin.

  • ManWithPlan

    “This is what a feminist looks like” t-shirts aren’t the problem…the women wearing them are.

  • Tiredofthehate

    Male that wear fedoras? You’re gonna be judged as a brony redditor two things that we are OBVIOUSLY ok with judging people on. Female that wears revealing clothing similar to a prostitute? STOP SLUT SHAMING YOU MISOGYNISTIC MALE SCUMS.

    Feminism ladies and gentlemen. Can we stop pretending this movement has anything to do with equality yet? Or do we have to wait until more feminists like Cathy Brennan show up?

    • Bastet

      I’m a feminist and am embarrased by this article. It’s judging, rude and infantile. Real issues exist. This is NOT feminism and does not reflect the opinions of feminists. This is one individual writing crap under the label of feminism and undermining the real issues and feminists everywhere. Real feminists fight situations of obvious inequality whether personally affected by it or not. There is no need to hate people, clothing items or any inanimate objects. Hate isn’t required to believe in equality and address real issues of unequality.

      This article contributes to the belief that feminists have no real issues anymore and are unintetested in issues that effect other groups of individuals. It makes me really sad because the quiet majority do care about very real societal prejudices affecting our selves, friends, family and society.

      • Shawn Neaverth

        “This article contributes to the belief that feminists have no real issues anymore”

        While American feminists talk about issues like this, 3rd world feminists are fighting for girls to be able to go to school. This is not a sign of feminism as a whole, it’s a sign of how American feminists are now. They have no major legal battles therefore stupid and immature things like this are published. In truth rags like this wouldn’t be able to exist if it wasn’t for childish shit like this. Females, if you consider yourself feminist, don’t be like this. Think global, fight for women everywhere, not just America.

  • Alla Konoplianik

    I never said it’s justified nor do I agree with it. But you know, do continue making assumptions about others based solely on one snide remark pointing out said hypocrisy, it will get you far. ;)

    • Chris

      Well, to be fair to him,. he did say “people should be able to wear what they want”, not “men should be able to wear what they want”. Unless of course, women aren’t people?

    • Anonymous

      Not even misogynists will argue with a feminist based on principle. They only argue with feminists when they use their jaded point of view to make stupid articles and defend them with even more stupid remarks.

  • Colin P. Müller

    Fedoras are lame. Hey MRA reddit douchebag, you’re not Humphrey Bogart.

  • Colin P. Müller

    Fedoras are lame. Hey MRA reddit do uchebag, you’re not Humphrey Bogart and you never will be.

  • Colin P. Müller

    I’ve never met a guy wearing a fedora who wasn’t a massive dork.

  • mehhh

    lmao the only people disagreeing with this article are men. who probably wear fedoras.

    • whatever

      I fucking hate them, like really hate them, I just dislike that it’s suddenly okay to judge everyone who wears ANYthing in ANY way. It’s a generalisation. We should be above this. As far as I’m concerned, the underlying message about racism, homophobia et al, is that judging someone by appearance or anything similarly superficial, is just wrong.

  • Mr/s Viewer

    Wow what a crap article.
    Btw, this is the part where someone responds with a sweeping generalization about my opinion.

    • Bastet

      As a feminist, I can only agree with you. The article is pure infantile rubbish.

  • Dan Lever

    Guys who wear fedoras and girls who wear those thick rimmed LOLSONERDYXD glasses are probably the most annoying people I’ve ever encountered.

  • Dee Doe

    impossible to argue a point with a feminist. they’ll just use logical fallacies and shaming to prove they’re right. this is why feminism is the joke of this generation.

    • Shawn Neaverth

      I don’t want to jump on any “feminist hate bandwagon” but you are totally right, and hopefully the immaturity can go away in the future and people can speak rationally to make things better. You, girl, are the future, you can make things better. Please stay this smart and stay vocal & fight for what is right, gender be damned. Hopefully the youth can make things better in the future, but too many are being indoctrinated to blanket hatred and too many don’t see the damage such false hysteria & shaming can cause. Women like you are this countries’ only hope.

  • Clockro4ch

    Strange. I see fedora people as massive whiteknighting limp-wristed idiots, who’d sooner join the SJW crowd than use mean words against the “ladies”.

  • Bill Tobolski

    I love watching the left shoot themselves in the foot. It’s Happening.

  • JonathanNathan

    No, not guilt by association. Assholes by association. You provide a haven for something despicable, you are issuing taci approval of it.

  • JonathanNathan

    More than they do over skin color.

  • Jonathon Robert Cowley

    Fedoras are also a problem in and of themselves because they look inherently silly.

  • Simon

    I own a fedora but it’s part of a Halloween costume.

  • Rebecca

    I find this article, and this whole meme, in general, to be pretty funny. That said, I think judging individuals by their appearance in this sort of sloppy way is a pretty dangerous path to go down. Of course, sometimes a person has to draw conclusions about someone from their appearance, like if someone is wearing a t-shirt with Adolf Hitler’s face on it and nothing else. But fedoras. . .neckbeards. . .things like these do not have one single meaning that every person who wears them is trying to communicate. Note how stereotypes of guys in fedoras often contain oppressive elements such as denigrating the guy for being fat (sizeism) or for living in his parent’s basement/spending too much time on the internet/not having a job (could be classism–maybe he can’t afford his own place–or ableism–maybe Aspberger’s Syndrome or Social Anxiety Disorder has made him reclusive). Even though feminists often don’t repeat these parts of the stereotype, they are still tapping into them by referencing the stereotype, at all. The point of this stereotyping is that fedoras and neckbeards are not conventionally in style. They are mildly deviant, and therefore they are associated with other mild deviances such as fatness or introversion. But misogyny is not deviant. Misogyny is the norm. We live in a misogynistic society. You want to know how to spot a misogynist? Look for the guy wearing jeans. Look for the guy wearing tennis shoes. Look for the guy wearing shortly-cropped hair on his head. All this stereotyping of guys for wearing slightly unconventional fashions does is punish people for being a little weird while at the same time actually MINIMIZING the prevalence of misogyny in society. In a patriarchal society, misogyny is the norm, and there is no way for a individual woman to pick out individual dangerous guys and avoid them. Maleness itself tends to be dangerous to women in this culture. The only actual solution is collective: women organizing together to dismantle patriarchy.

    • Innes

      In my sphere of influence, here in San Diego, I’ve not known misogyny to be the norm. I can’t recall noticing it ever. It’s all based on merit, how one performs.
      Btw, honest naive question: do feminists have sexual attraction towards other people? (and I mean this in the sense of respectful and normal, we’re sexual beings)
      What is misogyny? I remember I posted a picture of a woman revealing her beautiful breasts on my youtube channel page, and a woman I was commenting with on a video about dancing techniques checked my page and implied me being a misogynyst because of the breast focused photo. I posted the photo simply because I love women and that photo looked great. Simple as that.
      And how did I get here? I’m a bald/shave head/male pattern recession,.. and I wear hats,…I spend a lot of time in the sun,.. and circular brim hats(such as simple canvas ‘bucket’ hats) give more sun protection and more warmth even in cool temps more so than ball caps. And yesterday I bought a couple fedoras because I thought they look good on me,.. I had no preconceived ideas to buy them, though I went to the hat shop with an idea to get a brownish colored cowboy hat,.. but nothing looked right,… but yet when I tried the grey, and, brown Stetson fedoras, they looked right.
      So today I thought of Freddie Krueger and his fedora,.. and thought uh oh,… then I thought of Indiana Jones,.. and so there’re contrasts.
      And then I find these beware of wearing fedora styles articles,… and so,… I’ll see what I decide to do.
      And btw, I don’t hide behind my intentions,.. I go for what I want,.. and stop when it’s not mutually worthwhile.

      …. Okay, I’ll return the fedoras.

      Suppose if everyone was bald/baldish,… and lived in sunny climates,… would more fedoras be worn? Would more ‘stylish’(rather than ‘lame’) round-rim hats be worn?
      Would cowboy hats of the ‘right’ styles win over fedoras, fisherman hats, and canvas roundrim bucket hats, in popularity, weather during the day or when couples dancing at night for show-effect?

  • Chi

    It should be noted that in certain ethnic communities in America (Eastern European/Balkan/Roma) this is a very popular style for men. It is popular with those who love the music and style as well. It is insulting (and somewhat discriminating) to state that wearing a fedora is associated with misogynistic personality traits when for many its just a stylish way to dress within their communities.

  • Josh

    I used to wear a fedora when I was a kid. I loved it. I thought I looked like an agent or spy. I wore the fedora atleast more than 2 years. I wasnt a brony. Didnt use reddit. I only played video games when friends came over to my house. I went out a lot. When I was a teen, I wore a fedora and had a girlfriend. Ok, I was the nice guy type. I feel now like everyone was judging me from behind.

  • bill

    Man a hat isn’t anymore sexist or whatever than a damn microwave. And the world is filled with more douches than legit nice people anyway. It was just coincidence that the fedora was put under this label. Wear what ever the hell you want. Its not the hat that makes the person its the person.

  • lol

    ijjjjjijiiiiijjj

  • Bastet

    Hmmm… Sorry but this article is a massive fail. It makes feminism look stupid due to the fact this is not an actual issue. It’s scraping the bottom if thr barrel. Maybe if it was written as a comedy, it would be a nice laugh.

    And before anyone accuses me of being a fedora wearing nice guy, um no. I am a feminist, who just so happens to prefer sticking to real issues.

  • Bastet

    Feminispire. Please take this article down. Its an embarrassment to feminists everywhere. I am a feminist of over 20 years and could not be less impressed by this judging, infantile nonsense. You are giving us all a bad name!

  • niggity

    That wasn’t remotely his argument. He’s saying that if, as you claim, using a service (like reddit) that has some sections that are full of assholes makes you an asshole by association, then using the internet (as you are right now) must also make you a horrible person, because the internet is full of horrible people, and your very own guilt by association rule applies to you.

    So, I’m going to make the claim now that since the internet is full of misogynists, and you’re on the internet, you must be a misogynist. The only way to remove that association, by your very own argument, is to leave the internet.

    And if you say that you argue against misogyny online abd customize your experience, then I’ll just not accept that excuse. :)

  • Lawrence

    Does this article even have a point? Oh right, it was written by a mentally defunct feminist. Of course it doesn’t.

    This just in: Nice guys are p*ssies. More breaking news @ 11!

    I dread the fate of the man you get knocked up by.

  • Cyclone Dusk

    Oh my god.

    I am going to buy a fedora O_O PEOPLE WILL FINALLY GIVE ME SPACE AND LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE!

    WOO!

    I’m FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~! o/

  • glory4god

    And that’s why I don’t like them. They are basement-dwelling, overweight, ugly, smelly, unhygienic, atheist losers who thinks they’re superior and more intelligent than anyone else. What a joke.

    • Porst

      Don’t bring the atheism debate into shaming creepy manchildren, “glory4god”. I see your trap being sprung and it’s quite transparent.

  • mr. raper

    Dang I Just Bought A Fedora Today…What’s Reddit? I Dont Have A Video Game Console….Im 38 With Three Kids….So Are People Looking At Me Like Im A Rapist?…I Just Thought It Was A Cool Hat…

  • Soarel

    I’m more upset that these people shame me for being a gamer, nerd, and reddit user and immediately associate that with those “nice guy” douchebags. There’s a big outcry against those types…

  • Jacob

    Damn, you people are all really horrible to each other! Noor you made some excellent points…but you also seem to demonize the idea that a man can’t talk to a woman without ulterior motives. I am a nice guy. I can have friends who are women without being upset at not having sex with them. When I speak to anyone it is with the same level of respect for each person. I have never found it easy to simply “sex” a woman and move on; or when I get rejected hold a grudge. Don’t tell people that there are no nice guys. We exist. We’re simply a dying breed.

  • Melissa

    I think its unfair to say that every gamer boy in reddit is a sexist jerk. My boyfriend is a gamer, he likes reddit and he’s certainly into nerd culture, but he’s far more respectful to me than many girls I’ve dated. Liking a certain kind of media, playing games and subscribing to a website does not make you a bad person.

  • zaqan

    So feminists dont want guys to be assholes and game women. They dont want guys to befriend women so they can be vetted for sex. They dont want guys to introduce themselves as nice guys (which may be a ploy, but still). So how exactly does courtship occur?

  • zaqan

    So feminists dont want guys to be jerks and game women. They dont
    want guys to befriend women so they can be vetted for sex. They dont
    want guys to introduce themselves as nice guys (which may be a ploy, but
    still). So how exactly does courtship occur?

  • Racnad

    ” I am, however, in the business of telling men that unless their fedora is accompanied by a three-piece suit, they’re likely to be judged as a brony-MRA-redditor and therefore not score. That’s just a fact.”

    How is this different than saying “Unless women are at the beach or attending the Academy Awards, when showing that much skin they’re likely to be judged as an easy lay if not a bonafide prostitute and therefore encourage guys to hit on them. That’s just a fact.”???

  • Aaron Haspel

    I’ll be honest, I’ve worn a fedora for about 2 years, constantly. I haven’t worn a three piece suit with it once. But to generalize most guys who do this, as a “nice guy” is foolish. Judge not for what people wear on the outside, but for what values they hold on the inside. I’ve gotten an incredible amount of compliments from all different types of people. An amount of respect that I wouldn’t receive otherwise. I understand the importance of representing an entire generation on my head. I see this post as nothing other than to hinder to ego of a fedora wearing male. It takes a real classy man to wear a fedora the right way.

  • E.S

    I wear a fedora and while I may be a nice guy I’m also a bodybuilder, pipe smoker and personal trainer. Not all guys who wear the fedora are associated with this group of people some like me wear it just becuase we like the hat. Is it really fair that I should get sucked into this group of people just becuase I happen to wear the same kind of hat.