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Nice Guy Syndrome And The Friend Zone

I’m pretty sure everyone knows at least one Nice Guy. You know, those guys who think women only want to date assholes and just want be friends with the nice guys. These guys are plagued with what those of us who don’t suck call Nice Guy Syndrome.

Jeff Fecke of Shakesville.com explained Nice Guy Syndrome well here:

All right. Seriously. A Nice Guy® is a guy who tells you, in a bitter, resentful tone, that women don’t date “nice guys,” they only date “bad boys,” and because he’s “too nice,” women only view him as a friend.

Um… that doesn’t sound very nice.

One big thing I hate about Nice Guys is their implication that women who don’t want to date them, for whatever reason, are bitches, sluts, ugly, or whatever other nasty insult they can come up with. But the thing I hate most? The Friend Zone.

Even Superman is a Nice Guy The Friend Zone is a bullshit, misogynistic, make-believe land Nice Guys have come up with to demonize women for not wanting to date them. They use it as an excuse to ignore the fact that there are Actual Reasons behind their decision to not pursue a relationship or have sex with this guy. You know, like not being physically attracted to them. Or not being able to connect with them. Or seeing through their crap and realizing that the only reason these guys are even friends with them in the first place is so they can get laid.

It’s honestly one of the biggest loads of crap I’ve ever heard. Nice Guys are arrogant, egotistical, selfish douche bags who run around telling the world about how they’re the perfect boyfriend and they’re just so nice. But you know what? If these guys were genuinely nice, they wouldn’t be saying things like “the bitch stuck me in the friend zone because she only likes assholes.” Guess what? If she actually only liked assholes, then she would likely be super attracted to you because you are one.

Honestly. Is it really that unbearable to be friends with a person? Women don’t only exist to date or have sex with you. We are living, thinking creatures who maybe—just maybe—want to date and sex people we’re attracted to. And that doesn’t make any of us bitches. It makes us human.

Just Friends, the early beginnings of the Friend Zone I feel like Nice Guy Syndrome and the existence of the Friend Zone really exploded in 2005 when the movie Just Friends came out. The main character, portrayed by Ryan Reynolds, was always just a friend to the love of his life… until, of course, the end, when she magically fell in love with him.

Movies like this are really kind of poisonous. It puts the idea into people’s heads that if they wait out the Friend Zone, the woman responsible for their distress will just wake up one day and realize they’re in love with them. And they’ll tell themselves (and everyone else) they deserve it, over and over again. But you know what? You don’t deserve the dirt on my shoe if you don’t treat me with respect. Actual respect, not the kind you feign in an attempt to get me into bed with you.

This is my message to all the Nice Guys out there: if you call a woman a bitch, a slut, a skank, a whore, ugly, whatever, because she doesn’t want you, you are not nice. If you’re only nice to a woman because you want to be with her, you are not nice. And if you whine about constantly being Friend Zoned, it’s probably because you are not nice. End of story.

Written by Alisse Desrosiers
Follow her on Twitter, Tumblr, and at her blog, femetits!

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http://www.robotsandlace.com/ Jess Mary

one of my favorite quotes: “women are not vending machines for you to put in niceness and get out sex.”
- M
  
  But at the same time that’s exactly what D-Bags that women like so much think of you women as. The D-Bags think you are basically a blowup doll out of a vending machine and once they get you home all their confidence stops. They had confidence at the bar but once they get you home they have ZERO confidence and think of you as literally a blowup doll that would come out of a vending machine. Then once they got you home they don’t any confidence to talk to you hence (why the immediately leave when they are done with you in bed). Once the D-Bags are done with you in bed the D-Bags would much rather put a needle in you and watch you deflate then talk with you after they are done.
  - John
    
    Not all nice guys call women who don’t date them bitches. I’m sure this happens to nice girls too. What nice people wonder is why the opposite gender goes out with people they say they hate. Yes frustraion comes along with it. Sure nobody is perfect but you can’t relate someones frustration to date people who say they want things that they trly don’t. Well the men women complain about learn how to manipulate them and use them for sex. Not all nice guys mind being friends with women and not all nice guys befriend women to date them down the line. I agree with M here. I will admit during frustration not all of a nice guys words to prove his point aren’t necessarily nice but for sure true nice guys don’t insult the women that turn them down. Women say nice guys are “too nice” then when they’re not passive and try to show you’re choosing the wrong men then you start to hate them. If you dated more men not looking to just sleep with you and leave we might not be as frustrated. If you say that you never know a man’s intentions then look at the men you’re dating and try different types of men (as a suggestion). I’m a good guy, no I don’t insult women who don’t date me, no I don’t care if women just want men who want to use them for sex (yes I’d try to warn them. If they don’t listen it’s their problem when it happens). No I can’t seem to get a date but to be honest I really don’t care, after I get a degree in physics I’m off to get a job somewhere. People may say I’m a beta male, but keep in mind the only reason why I’m this beta male is because I’m not going to manipulate women into dating me. If I never date I’m fine with that. I know plenty of more men out there like me and if you truly want us well give us a chance and don’t let us pass by. The more women reject us the less we care about dating in general.
    - Tyler
      
      I see what John is saying. I mean what decent person would put relationships before personal success. I agree with him that there are a lot of nice guys out there you just need to know where to look. There are truly nice guys out there who want to date more for connection and don’t care about sex. They understand that you’re not sexually attracted to them but they know there’s more to that. I’ve noticed that once you get past looks and look at personality attraction really isn’t that shallow of a thing all the time though you can never know this based off one date and from experience I found that I tend to reveal a lot less about myself with friends then with girlfriends. So I can see why a nice guy would wonder why a woman would date a jerk over a genuine nice friend. Though I don’t see the need for taking it to heart. If anything dating just for sexual appeal over dating what is better for you in the end just shows that they’re not ready for a serious relationship with comittment no matter how much a person would say that they’re ready. I believe mself that dating should start out with friendship and dating shouldn’t involve sex necessarily, especially when it first starts out. Sex should be an expression of love and not really just for sexual pleasure. Of course sex will come along in dating but it shouldn’t be the reason behind who you date. Though in the end it’s about finding the right person. I would agree that most if not all jerks have learned how to manipulate women, and I think it goes in vice versa too. If you know where to look you may date less but you’ll date better overall and if you just want to base a relationship with sexual attraction over a good person then you can’t really blame the other gender for having few good relationships. Though nice guys aren’t perfect either and will make mistakes so please don’t hate them for their mistakes. There are a lot of good guys out there who will ask a woman out if they think they will click with her and not to just have sex with her. In my opinion this is how it should be and if anyone disagree well it’s their choice of beliefs and I won’t dislike them for it. It may or may not be true in cases that nice guys finish last though to be honest I don’t see finishing last as a bad thing. In the time you are sile or dating they’re experiences you earn from, people learn in different way but overall either way we grow as a person.
- Jack
  
  Lol yeah they are.
- http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais
  
  nope but if she uses his niceness and leads him on she becomes the abuser and the user not him. not all nice guys call women names for it ( but when they do they have every right too especially if she used him )i think women do not understand how cruel and mean they can be. pretty in pink all women love it but she abuses the nice guy in the end
http://twitter.com/abbeybabbling Abigail Lewis

THIS IS STELLAR! seriously.
In a roundabout way there is also so much victim shaming coming from nice guys. Like, “well, if she’s only going to date assholes, obviously she’s going to get hurt, she should open her eyes.” Excuse me?
- brookstyle
  
  Yeah. No one should ever shame another for making obviously stupid choices over and over. Thats blaming the victim.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705675577 Kevin Kennedy
  
  I don’t shame women for this…but if there is a pattern and a woman who I’m friends with asks me-I do point out the pattern. That’s what friends are for, right? Women who tend to chase men that are unobtainable in some way are like men who do the same. Shame doesn’t come from outside sources. Women have the intuition to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG, and do it anyhow…just like men do. Very little difference in the mentality.
- windskisong
  
  See my comment below – I watched this, then finally unintentionally became one of those when I told them to shove off… And was promptly asked out.
  But no longer interested.
http://www.facebook.com/leahnm Leah Nicole Moreno

Also, “Just Friends” gave the message that if you’re in the friend zone, just become really hot and she’ll want you. You know, because women are shallow and base all of their relationship decisions on how you look and how much money you make.
- http://www.facebook.com/alisse.desrosiers Alisse Marie
  
  Really good point, thank you for bringing it up! That movie pisses me off so much, I can’t even put into words how much I hate it.
- windskisong
  
  Umm… seen it time and again. Watched women stay in abusive relationships while pouring out their pain on the nice guys around them. Ironically, when I stopped putting up with the crap and told two of them to tell their sob stories to someone else, I wasn’t listening anymore… both of them asked me out within the week, but I was not longer interested. It wasn’t (only) that they were shallow, but because they genuinely did not like being treated well in a relationship.
http://twitter.com/SavannahKThomas Savannah Thomas

Brilliantly written.
Wendy Kroy

“Or seeing through their crap and realizing that the only reason
these guys are even friends with them in the first place is so they can
get laid.”

If that’s the case, and the men are so abhorrent that they should be detested…why maintain the friendship? Why not confront the guy and end the friendship then and there? It would seem that the strong, independent woman would immediately cease the friendship then and there, either through a simple “I like you but I am not attracted to you” or by your more forceful, “You are only nice to me to get laid.” Yet, the idea of the Friend Zone persists because, it would appear, the friendship persists, with all the advantages said friendship carries. Why?
- McG
  
  This happened to me. The guy was really cool and one of the most hilarious people I met. He persisted that we should date, and even though I didn’t feel that way about him, I gave it a shot. After two months, I told him “Hey listen, I really like you as a best friend, but I just don’t feel this way about you.” He was an asshole for a little after (I could understand, he just got broken up with) but we went back to being friends. Eventually we grew apart. I guess the point is that, I loved him as a friend. We were best friends. I just wanted to believe so hard that that could be enough for him too.
  - windskisong
    
    When Harry Met Sally: “Men and Women can’t be friends. The sex thing always gets in the way.” It is true that it’s hard to be friends if one of you is attracted. Seems like that problem went away once I was married. With the opposite sex friends (other than my wife), the attraction problem went away on both sides, and we could be actual friends.
Lauren Mary

AMEN!
Voice Of Reason

It seems that just about everybody has a mental illness nowadays. Most mental illnesses are non existent, only diagnosed as such so they can keep the drug industry running.

This is especially the case with children. Most child mental disorders are a direct result of a poor diet . Instead of feeding their children a healthy diet and working on their childs development, parents would rather just wait until the child is old enough and pump drugs into them.

It’s poor, lazy parenting.
- http://www.facebook.com/alisse.desrosiers Alisse Marie
  
  Wow, ignoring ALL THE THINGS wrong with this comment, I need to comment on the fact that you commented about mental illness… on a feminist article. Either you commented on the wrong post, or you’re actually insinuating that feminism is a mental illness. Please, feel free to clarify.
  - http://www.facebook.com/thorvington.finglethorpe Thorvington Finglethorpe
    
    Feminism isn’t mental illness, but a great many of the most virulent feminists are undeniably mentally ill. I refer you, specifically, to the concept of “delusions of persecution,” specifically, in the DSM.
Iodhan

I wonder if there isn’t something deeper here. Most men find it difficult to be friends with women in the first place when sexual attraction enters the picture. Once that becomes an issue, there is an immediate differential in which both parties view the relationship. One wants romance and/or sex, the other does not. It complicates things. However, guys have been taught through just as many movies that if you stick around and wait it out, eventually you get the girl usually by becoming a hero of some type.

The problem with “The friend zone”, isn’t simply that it exists, but that it is perpetuated as much by women as by men. I have known countless women who keep such men around as a “Fallback” or just because having someone there feeds their ego and so they lead them on to a certain point. Placing all the blame on men without addressing the female component of this does not tell the entire story. I have known many, many more guys who got stuck in the friend zone this way, and many, many more women who encouraged it, than what this article posits.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Ryan/100001154558248 Mark Ryan
  
  Good show, old chap.
- http://www.facebook.com/alisse.desrosiers Alisse Marie
  
  See my issue with the friend zone is the implication that women who don’t want the man in question are bitches, no questions asked. If you notice, I did specify that I was talking about Nice Guys ™, a specific type of asshole that really makes me rage. These men are not actually nice, sorry to say. It is absolutely possible that there are genuinely nice men out there who have been in an unrequited love situation but at the end of the day, women still don’t owe them sex and/or a relationship. That’s not to say that there aren’t shitty women who do purposely lead on people! There absolutely are. But being friends with a person DOES NOT count as ‘leading them on.’
  
  I would like to hear more about what you have to say about this. I mean that!
  - http://www.facebook.com/thorvington.finglethorpe Thorvington Finglethorpe
    
    Unless somebody calls you names, the “implication” that you’re a bitch is not an implication at all–it is somethign you have inferred from your own biases.
    
    Nobody owes anybody sex or a relationship, but it is also quite cruel to maintain an obviously unequal “friendship” with somebody you have no interest in whatsoever just because having one more “friend” stokes your ego and makes you feel less guilty about rejecting the person because you offered them a consolation prize.
Nojuan Especial

Nice try ladies, but this “treatise” falls flat. Your
argument seems to be born out of the chagrin you feel because we’re fed
up with your hypocrisy and are calling you on it. You feel ashamed, and
rightly so. That doesn’t make us liars. Why lie? We know it wouldn’t
change anything.

First of all, the Friend Zone happens in gay/lesbian
couples as well, so it cannot be simply misogynistic. It’s just most
common in heterosexual situations because straight women do it most
often. This is because straight women befriend “safe”
men and date “dangerous” ones. This is a common phenomenon and was
identified LONG BEFORE the Friend Zone had a name or was formally
identified.
Nice Guys did not make up the Friend Zone, we just named it. YOU made it, one man at a time. Stabbing
him in the face, heart, stomach and balls with each lament over some
facet that your douche bag partners lack that we have.
We aren’t ignoring ANYTHING. We KNOW you have reasons for putting men in the Friend Zone. That doesn’t mean it ceases to exist. We
are well aware that you are not attracted to us for whatever reason
applies. We just also see the hypocrisy of a woman lamenting -to a good
man- that there are no good men. We see this as akin to complaining to the rain about a drought while using said rain to wash your hair.
The Friend Zone’d man may indeed want to have sex
with you- but that’s because he wants to BE WITH YOU. A man who only
wants to get laid would not put up with the kind of pain a truly Friend
Zone’d man does. He would probably have better luck than us at getting
you in bed, and if not then he would leave you when he knew he wasn’t
going to get any- that is what separates the Nice guys from the assholes
you date. Hence why we’re called NICE GUYS and are your FRIEND, and
you’re turning to us about that douche bag who sweet talked you into the
sack and then took off faster than an F-15.
This sad, mean attempt at a “defense” for your behavior
only further proves our collective point: That the limits to your
self-righteous delusion border on unfathomable.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Ryan/100001154558248 Mark Ryan
  
  I simply cannot give this enough thumbs up. Good show, old chap.
- scarlettglass
  
  Wow, it’s hilarious that you self-identify as the kind of whiny asshole this article is talking about… by whining, and being an asshole. Did it ever occur to you that despite the wisdom you seem to think you have about who women should want to date, maybe these women have individual reasons you know nothing about for not wanting to date you? Jesus, you try to say it’s not a patriarchy thing, then immediately turn it into one. So those dumb bitches slept with assholes who didn’t call them, and now you’re mad that you can’t just make them SEE the error of their ways? I see a lot of reasons not to date you. It’s a shame you can’t self-identify those.
  - nep
    
    kudos!!!
  - Emma
    
    “Wow, it’s hilarious that you self-identify as the kind of whiny asshole this article is talking about… by whining, and being an asshole.”
    
    Seriously.
- bo
  
  you know, men bitch and wine about there being no good women out there, they are all bitches, when im sitting right there, being their best friend everything they are looking for, and not being noticed, im “one of the guys.” and i dont cry and wine about it, i just accept that they havent figured out how to find what they are looking for and that hopefully one day they will find a good woman, even if it hurts cause ive liked them for so long. But I enjoy the friendship we have and love hanging out, so why complain?
  - dave
    
    Bo –I hope that I understand you, but you say that men, stuck in the “friendzone” , are supposed to accept it, happily, hoping that the woman they want, who is just their friend.will find another guy?
    That is a friendship the man is supposed to enjoy?
    - StansCoffins
      
      If he can’t enjoy anything about the friendship, or be happy when his friend finds another guy, then he shouldn’t be in it. It’s beyond creepy to claim that they should carry on pretending to be the girl’s friend in the vain attempt that she will eventually change her mind about not wanting to fuck him.
  - windskisong
    
    Sounds like you are the female equivalent. I know it goes both ways. Nojuan explained the situation well. Hang in there.
- james
  
  Spot on man. Spot on.
- nep
  
  Your completely missing/arguing against the point of this article. You are generalizing women and that makes you look like an idiot.
- Guest
  
  Someone’s bitter.
Anonymous Nice Guy

http://theanonymousniceguy.blogspot.com/
ScottLastNameRedacted

There’s another huge problem here: Since we can reasonably assume that the “Nice Guy” selects the people to whom he is so “nice” based upon an attractiveness characteristic disguised as kindness, and simultaneously expect women to be completely open about their criteria for selection (and the NG also expects women to completely ignore attractiveness), we see that classic emblem of misogyny at work: the double standard. There’s actually two here: first, that it’s permissible for men to be dishonest about their selection criteria, while women are expected to uphold a burden of honesty not placed on men, and, further, that men can judge based upon attractiveness, but women must complacently accept male kindness as tokens in exchange for sex.
- http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais
  
  its not so much as a double standard as an erection meter. if she cant get you hard how can it go anywhere????????? women do not have this problem
woppedydo

I have a male friend that I am not attracted to for multiple reasons, and I’m just going to be extremely blunt because as people said in this article apparently men want women to be extremely “open” about their requirements. Well, basically, I am not attracted to him at all. He is short, chubby, and kind of weaselish looking with odd facial hair. Now, before calling me out for being a superficial B&* or something of the sort, I fully recognize that I am also average, and i have dated chubby men, and short men, and men with facial hair, but in his case there is physically nothing i really find attractive about him. period.

Now, he is pretty funny {good sense of humor} and smart, though not a very good conversationalist a lot of the time {when hes not making jokes he tends to ask a lot of pushy, personal questions}. This is an aspect of his personality i dont like. Additionally, he gets drunk extremely frequently to the point of being kind of annoying and borderline mean, and is a very very bad dancer (to the point where he one time threw a girl he was dancing with drunk on the floor).

Anyway despite his good points (being nice most of the time [except when drunk], generous, sociable, and funny) it is pretty clear that there are so many things, both personality and physically that i dont like about him. He on the other hand, seems to like not only me but also all of my female friends.

I do admit that I talk to him frequently about my dating/problems, but he also does the same about his dating/problems, so i dont think of myself as BURDENING him with my problems. I have dated “assholes” but I would not consider myself a victim by any means since I am pretty quick about identifying them and shutting them down.

Despite the fact that most of the time he is on good behavior, sometimes this guy slips into whiny rants about the fact that I dont want to dance with him at parties (because im not interested and because hes a terrible dancer, to the point of being dangerous) – and how i dont realize what a “nice guy” he is. After a while of being friends with him, I come to find out that HE rejects women FREQUENTLY for reasons as, or more superficial than mine (basically, he doesnt like the short fatties, even though he is a short fatty himself). He has frequently rejected women on behalf of things like their weight, hair type, height, etc.; especially so with women that I actually find objectively better looking than him; not to mention less mean drunks.

After one drunk episode where he forced me to dance with him and through a little drunk tantrum because i didnt want to – I told him point blank that he ever whined and ranted to me AGAIN, EVER about not wanting to do something I dont want to do, he was going to get a slap in the face. Noone guilts me into dancing with a touchy drunk under the guise of being a “nice guy”, what a bastard. If he doesnt like my terms than he can go elsewhere for friendship.

My overall conclusion with this experience is that if you are not attracted to someone you really don’t owe them jack. They’re probably rejecting female “fatties” left and right, simultaneously trying to guilt YOU for not finding them attractive, and crying about how the ogre doesnt get the princess like in beauty and the beast.

Now to be fair I do know “nice guys” that are even very attractive, and get rejected by dramatic repulsive women that do undoubtedly have some genetic attraction to assholes in spite of themselves. These women have psychological problems and frankly, the guys also might have psychological problems for playing into such drama; and that’s another subject entirely.

I also know nice guys that are not so attractive but have either very attractive personalities or other attractive features; and they dont guilt women for not liking them; they simply either do their best and move on; or continue being friends with the knowledge that things might not pan out. This is a much healthier attitude and noone has any problem with this kind of guy either.
- http://www.facebook.com/thorvington.finglethorpe Thorvington Finglethorpe
  
  Let me first say I appreciate you candor: Few women have the guts to admit they don’t like fat guys. Most women in your situation would have left that out because there was so much else you disliked about him. I applaud this honesty because it sounds like the problem isn’t his weight but the fact that he has a somewhat lousy personality.
  
  Let me be equally as blunt: Horse shit. You’re getting some kind of charge out this guy being attracted to you or you would’ve kicked him to the curb long ago. It is plainly obvious from your diatribe against this man that you find many of his actions to be repugnant, and his appearance to be unattractive, but you continue on in this unequal faux friendship. Which makes me wonder: What is it you get out of this?
  
  Maybe you don’t like HIM, but you clearly like the attention–the ego boost of always having a male around that can validate your desirability, appearance, or whatever it is he validates for you without you having to risk anything emotionally by being involved in a relationship with him. You get to have your cake, and you get to eat it too.
  
  Given that you KNOW you don’t want to be with him, and you KNOW he wants to be with you, how can you ethically continue in this farce of a friendship? His attraction and advances may be annoying, but you’re clearly enjoying something about them or he wouldn’t be around. If you honestly are as offended by this person as you seem to be, cut ties or you’re just using him to get whatever you’re getting. (Only you know what that is.)
  - http://www.facebook.com/bethanygsimpson Bethany Simpson
    
    She flat out said that he’s nice and funny most of the time. I have lots of friends – doesn’t mean I like every single thing about them and doesn’t mean I don’t sometimes find them irritating.
  - Ben
    
    Thorvington: you’re saying that because she likes some things about him and not others, she’s hereby ordered to break all ties with him? I understand neither your logic nor the justification of your authority.
- womenareevil
  
  When a Guy tells a woman to be attracted to him she must do what he says and be attracted to him, he is the MAN and he knows what he is entitled to…
http://www.facebook.com/mike.callesen Mike Callesen

Methinks the definition of a “Nice Guy” ought to be re-evaluated. A “Nice Guy” is the type of man who treats a woman as though she is more than just a body; she’s an individual with thoughts and feelings, whom he would like to get to know better. Or am I wrong?
- Emma
  
  “Nice Guy” is the guy described in the article, a nice guy is the guy you described in your comment. Usually the quotations are the distinction, as far as I’ve seen.
  - Liam McGuigan
    
    I stumbled onto this, and it is quite the fascinating topic but I must say that most of the issues thhat with come from specifcally men reading this, is that this is not really talking about the genuine “nice guy”. The analysis of the so-called “nice guy”, the guy who feigns interest and cordiality etc. for the desperate opportunity to date or even sleep with the object of his attention is spot on. Those “so-called nice guys” are true assholes.
    
    That said, the true nice guys so to speak, are men who geuinely respect and seriously enjoy the company of the female object of their desire and want to continue to the next step. These are men who would never call the girl who rejected them whores, sluts etc. The problem here for these guys and the so-called asshole/nice guy dichotomy is about confidence.
    
    These “true nice guys” simply lack confidence. That lack of confidence allows them to be put into the proverbial friend zone, often through no consious fault of the woman. The problem therein lies with how these true nice guys see it. They see the girls they like, seeking the attention of men who are often strong willed and confident. Becuase these men lack this confidence they equate it with assholeishness. They know that these “assholes” are often simply placating women with this confidence. Now granted, many women see through these “assholes” just like they see through the nice guys found in the article, but enough do not, that these true nice guys think that women only like men who are assholes. The fault in my opinion lies pretty evenly. Genuine nice guys often mistake confidence with assholeish to their own detriment, and many women see confidence as a turn-on or flaterring when often this confidence is as artificial as the “so-called” nice guys.
    
    Ultimately, what women want, generally speaking, is genuinely nice guys with genuine confidence. They do exist.
    - Emma
      
      I don’t think it is all about confidence – there are lots of confident guys who get rejected a lot.
      
      I think true nice guys (as opposed to the “Nice Guys” written about) are guys who don’t approach friendship with an expectation or agenda, and if feelings do develop (as opposed to my experiences with “Nice Guys” in which they ALWAYS develop because they only befriend women who they want to date), the guy either acts on it and is content to be your friend even if you don’t want to date him, or (if he’s shy) doesn’t act on it but doesn’t silently resent you for not knowing he likes you.
      
      Confidence is important but beyond that I think most women just want the respect – we aren’t drawn to confidence like moths to a light, there also has to be respect and attraction and compatibility. “Nice Guys” may be confident but that confidence often turns into aggressive, whiny, bratty behaviour when the girl they like doesn’t like them back.
    - John
      
      You hit the nail on the head. Though I think jerkish guys have arrogance and not confidence. Though they disguise their arrogance as confidence. They walk around pretending to be a genuine nice guy with the thoughts in their head that they can have any women they want and if she never sleeps with them or gives them a chance then she’s a bitch or a whore. However nice guys have true confidence. Yeah they may be shy but do you really think a nice guy who’s maybe shy and isn’t used to getting rejected by women would ask her out if he didn’t expect a yes. This is true confidence, asking someone out you think you may have a chance with after getting to know them and seeing what their personality is like. Yes I think women just like men could be shallow but from a tad bit of experience I realized that once you get to know somebody really well when dating them you start to like them and fall for them whether they’re attractive or not.
Robert Newnham

Every coin has 2 sides and i think your trying to hard on bad points of that coin maybe personal experiance? but there are some really nasty woman out there who play on guys emotions to get what they want then use the freind zone as a exscues as for me ive always been single all my life. When a girl turns me down i just accept shes my freind and move on oddly somtimes that girl’s start to yell at me saying i just wanted to sleep with them and as ive lost my thing for her because of this hole freindzone she useis that as a exscues so ladys and gents accept them as they are and dont just blame it on the freindzone. possitive note on me ill find someone some day all i have to do is wait out the storm of crap and morons
- Robert Newnham
  
  im not also saying you have bad points i can see where your coming at and to be honist i hate thease kind of guys too but i would ask you also to find a nice guy freind because i have plenty and also ask there opional and view point rember collective infomation is the key to a accurate awnser. servays do the trick too
  - cabra
    
    How old are you?
- John
  
  I would have to agree with you about women who play on truly nice guys emotions and uses truly nice guys to boost her ego or get what she wants. I’ve had girls do this quite a bit for their own entertainment. It is interesting when they complain about good guys. Like the truly good guy who’s mind and emotions you decided to play with wasn’t a decent guy who might have given you a chance. In a way these types of women do bring it upon themselves with any boyfriend they get. These women get used then tossed aside like trash. It is sad to see but it’s karma I guess. One day they’ll wake up and either give up on dating or wonder why they’ve been treated like crap by men their wole life and date good guys or they might go on to date jerks until a jerks does something to them that would make them regret dating jerks. Either way relationships aren’t worth wasting your time on as a good guy. Just carry on your life and try to better yourself and you’ll end up finding a girl who truly appreciates you and you will deserve her. If not then you know who others are who tried to give you a chance and in the end you truly are the lucky one for not dealing with the drama of relationships.
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http://www.facebook.com/sara.pickin Sara Pickin

I have a friend who is a genuine nice guy, but who did always end up being just good friends with lots of pretty girls. I think the reason that this happened was because he was so desperate to get a girlfriend that he always tried too hard, and women can smell it. He wasn’t relaxed. There was no playfulness in his approach, he was too self sacrificial, too eager; it made women nervous. He was always so busy being the perfect gentleman that he forgot to be himself. He has a girlfriend now, and they are really well suited and happy. When he met her, he was so comfortable with her that he dropped his act and they just clicked.

The nice guy friendzone bullsh*t really gets to me, but I don’t want to demonize the men who peddle it too much, because they aren’t all terrible people (though I’ve known a couple of real creeps) – they are usually just guys who really want a girlfriend, and after a while they start to look at all their female friends / every girl they meet a bit funny, and start thinking “well we get on, and you’re attractive, so why not?”. I’ve had one or two male friends with whom this has happened and it’s always worn off once they’ve found the girl for them – and they realise that actually they didn’t want me in that way at all, I just happened to be there when they were looking. Guys imagine they really are in love with a female friend when actually they are just wondering why she isn’t in love with them. Because they REALLY want a girlfriend.

The problem is that the ideas of what women are and what they want have been ridiculously oversimplified. Yes, there are some desirable traits that most girls will go for across the board. A caring guy who makes you laugh. Someone who is nice to you. Women are a bit attracted to bad boys in the short term, because they’re exciting. And going out with an asshole always teaches you some very precious lessons about what you should and shouldn’t put up with, so why not?

However, no woman is attracted to a man who she senses is simply pretending to be what he thinks she wants. The most attractive trait a person can have is the ability to be themselves, to be at ease, to be natural. And if she still doesn’t think you are for her, then she’s not for you either. But – you can still be friends.
- med_stu
  
  I don’t mean to put words in your mouth, but I don’t think your friend is the type of Nice Guy ™ that the author is talking about. She’s talking about the guys who go around shouting about what “nice guys” they are, and then calling women who aren’t interested in them “whore” and “bitch”. To me, if your friend doesn’t fit into that category then he’s probably just a shy person who, like you said, got a little too desperate about having a girlfriend which makes it harder. I was like that myself, except I’m a woman. It took me till I was 32 to relax enough to meet someone great. This is a little different than if your friend was someone who would keep being friends with you because he thought he was attracted to you, and then said disgusting things about you when you weren’t willing to go out with him. These guys are actually misogynistic assholes, who say things like ‘girls are “obligated” to shave their legs’, that ‘a “no” is just a “yes” that needs a little more convincing’.
  
  I’m not attacking what you said, I just think the mistake that a lot of people make is they mix up “people who are shy or have low self esteem” with “Nice Guy” ™. The difference is that people who are shy occurs is genderless. People of both genders struggle with shyness and social awkwardness, and this does make it harder to meet people, or to start a relationship. We should treat these people with enormous empathy (I was one of them, so I’m very definite about that!). However they are not the same people as the guys who behave like women only exist to provide them with something whilst declaring what nice guys and perfect gentlemen they are.
- http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais
  
  finally an honest women says they are not all creeps.. but sometimes the man does really love her and she just uses that love to her own ends never rewarding him for being there for her. (if she is a virgin and not sleeping around a bunch.)she has the right to get mad at him but if she has a different guy every week or so, she is crying on his shoulder about the next ).or has been leading him on. she is being cruel not too. especially if she knows he loves her. ( she knows a taste would make him happier than anything she could say or do) its a one way relationship where someone is being used.
  
  it is not that men expect sex, men need sex. you would feed a starving person wouldn’t you?
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Mike

Wow. You do not realize how degrading this was to read as a guy. Not all “Nice Guys” act nice just to have sex with a women. There are genuinely nice guys out there who do care about women and get friend-zoned. They do not call women who turn them down bitches or sluts but after they get friend-zoned more than once and it turns into a pattern, they get frustrated. Your implication that all Nice Guys call women bitches or sluts when they get turned down is totally false. Basically, you described an “Asshole” and called him the “Nice Guy.”
- Angel
  
  She’s talking about guys who go around proclaiming themselves to be nice and then being manipulative, sex obsessed whiners. She’s not actually saying these guys are nice people, it’s just what they call themselves. It makes sense to women because most of us have known one of these guys (at least) who whines about how nice he is and at the same time stereotypes women as like assholes. Try not to take offense to it, it’s not supposed to represent genuinely nice men. Just the guys that label themselves as such and really aren’t.
  - randomgirl
    
    Yes, so true. There are nice guys, some who are single or taken. and then there are those guys where who act all nice and confidant and you from their actions you can tell that they are really just interested in you as a body. basically this is a sleaze bag trying to use cheap niceties as gimmicks to earn trust/leeway/power with someone male or female, just because he wants to get off in some way. nice people who are fake and have alterior motives basically is where the “nice guys” (not to be confused with actual nice guys or good people) fall into.
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M

Yea but I think the so called “friend zone” that women put their so called “nice guys” in those “nice guys” usually end up marrying them because women get really sick and tired of the D-Bags that yeah get her in the sack, eff her, doesn’t care about you, after he got you into your bed, effed you he then is gone quicker than an F-15 fighter jet, will never ever call her back oh yeah and on top of that he has 15 or 20 other girlfriends he’s effin on the same side.

But to these women that spells “confidence”. What was so great about Mr. D-Bag that ONLY effed you, immediately left after he was done and probably left you crying and whining about where are all the “good” guys. Yeah they might be OK at starting the conversation at the bar to get you to go home with him but then the confidence completely stops once he gets you to your house. But on the other hand women have this black and white image (no pun intended) that the so called “good guy” is just that, just a “good guy”, how so wrong these women are. Most so called “good guys” have the bad boy side to them and most of them have a h*ll of a lot more confidence then those D-Bags that women go for. Do women seriously think the D-Bags that just effed you in your bed then immediately got up, before you could say anything he was out the effin door so does that spell confidence to you women??? That just spells Mr. SO UNCONFIDENT that has absolutely ZERO confidence cause Mr. D-Bags wouldn’t spend a second with you after he got you in the sac, let alone talk to you. All you are to Mr. D-Bags is basically a plastic, inflatable blowup doll and when he’s done with you Mr. D-Bags would rather stick a needle in you and deflate you like a blowup doll.
- John
  
  You’re right with these D-Bags you talk about. They’re just arrogant thinking they can get any girl in the world to sleep with them. Then they do just that. If you google how to get a girlfriend or how to get a girl to like you most of the things that come up are on how to manipulate women and sleep with them as quick as possible. The thing with truly nice guys is that I’ve heard them time and time again be called push overs, but as soon as they stand up for themselves or start question why their female friends always want a good guy but always date these D-Bags that nice guy is known as an A-hole. Yes I’ll agree that women can be as shallow as men and vice versa but a question every person on this planet should ask themselves is if their attractive significant other lost their looks one day in some tragic accident would they still love them. Most the time good guys aren’t looking for sex but a fair chance at a relationship and most the time they never get a decent chance. Truly good guys unlike these d-bags have a sense of attraction but they don’t always care about looks.
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705675577 Kevin Kennedy
    
    On one night stands and ‘D-bags’…Men are just vibrators with legs.
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kaleys

Friendzone is real. It’s not nearly as common as Internet made us believe, but it’s real.
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BobBobby

I like how the author is attacking guys who probably already have
pretty low self-esteem (way to kick them when they’re down). Also, it
assumes that every guy who is in the friend zone is somehow mad at her
for not wanting to be with them. There are plenty of girls who put guys
in friend zones for understandable reasons but that doesn’t mean the guy
has no right to lament his situation or to think that she just doesn’t
know he’d be good for her (wrong as he may be).

All the friend zone is is someone who is friends with someone else but wants to
be more than friends. I fail to see how that is misogynistic in itself. In fact, one person doesn’t even have to have romantic feelings for the other. Everyone is in the friend zone with their friends it’s just they usually both want to keep it there.
- John
  
  I know what you mean but to be honest I think she’s talking about the so called “nice guys” who hate and insult women who reject them. She’s not talking abot truly nice guys though I’m not sure how many people here get that, though I know some do and some don’t. What those who don’t get it need to understand is that a nice guy will be frinds with a girl and only expects the same respect back. Not much to ask for from any relationship. Also truly good guys get to know women before asking them out. In cases they do tend to be less shallow when it comes to looks. For those looking for “confidence” they should probably look why these truly nice guys have no “confidence”.
- http://www.facebook.com/bethanygsimpson Bethany Simpson
  
  and the ‘friend zone’ implies that it’s some sort of punishment, and that it isn’t a true friendship. if a person is that into someone that only being friends with them hurts, but they’ve has made it clear there will never being anything, then it would behoove the ‘friendzoned’ party to remove themselves from the situation and get a little distance.
  
  friendship isn’t a ‘zone’ – it’s a relationship in and of its own right. that’s why the ‘friendzone’ isn’t a real thing – it’s a self imposed box, and it presumes that real friendship can’t exist between the two parties.
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705675577 Kevin Kennedy
    
    FriendZone-putting a person at arm’s length and allowing others to get closer to you. It’s a zone. “We can be friends” is the absolute worst thing that can be said to someone who likes you for more than that. It isn’t all about sex.
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ned

I feel like this comment probably won’t get any attention on a website like this but I hope someone sees this.

Nice Guy Syndrome exists but I think the author’s reaching a little bit to connect it to the Friendzone the way she did and demonize guys who get put into the friendzone as a result. I’ll give my own personal example of how I believe the friendzone usually goes.

In high school, I had a huge crush on this girl in my
classes. I thought she was absolutely gorgeous and a nice girl and
thought my life would be great if I could date her. Unfortunately, I
didn’t have nearly enough self-confidence at the time to flat out say it so I just went on secretly having a crush on her. Eventually however I started talking to her and
found that aside from all that stuff I mentioned previously, she
was a genuinely cool, smart girl who I really clicked with. Hour long conversations felt like minutes and we were always there for each other. So on top of the physical attraction I
had for her, I was coming to realize that I also really liked her as a
friend. In hindsight I probably could have just dated her back then by being more assertive and letting my feelings be known but considering where I was as far as my self-esteem, it didn’t seem like a viable option. So at the time, I felt stuck because I genuinely
valued her friendship and didn’t want to risk ending it by telling her
my feelings but I also wanted more from the relationship at the same
time.

In my experience, this is the friendzone. Someone having romantic feelings for their friend who doesn’t reciprocate. I don’t think it’s only guys who want to have sex faking a friendship in hopes that one that she’ll slip and fall on his dick. There’s really no one to blame in a real friendzone situation because it’s shitty for all involved. Seeing articles like this annoy me because they completely misrepresent the feelings of guys who are actually in the friendzone and try to minimize it by acting like the guy is only after sex. Honestly I think it’s just a coping mechanism for people to not feel bad about friendzoning someone.
- med_stu
  
  The problem is that all your wording in this comment implies that this girl you liked “put you” in the “friendzone”. Like it’s a conscious decision she made to DO something to you. Using the term friendzone, and talking about guys getting “put in the friendzone” directly implies an ACTION on the part of the girl.
  
  What really happened is that you had a crush on a girl, became friends with her, and nothing ever happened about your feelings. You imply that this type of discussion is a way to “not feel bad about friendzoning someone”, but what is it she was supposed to do? You NEVER told her you had feelings for her. Maybe she wasn’t interested but didn’t know about your feelings and just thought you were friends? Maybe she had feelings for you but was too scared to say in case you didn’t feel the same and it ruined your friendship? Maybe she wasn’t interested and suspected you had feelings for her but YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING. So what was she supposed to do? Tell you she didn’t have feelings for you, even though you never asked?
  
  Your argument presupposes that all the power is on the girls side. That she MUST have known you had feelings for her, and DECIDED to “put you in the friendzone” for some bizarre reason other than ‘she just wasn’t interested in you and had never thought about it. If you guys are friends, she is not obligated to consider whether you may have feelings for her or not. She can just assume you are friends, unless you specifically tell her you want something else. Women do not exist to monitor whether you’re interested in them or not. I’m telling you, if guys befriend me, I assume they want to be friends until if or when they tell me they want to date. Because I have other things to think about than whether I’m UNINTENTIONALLY and INNOCENTLY FORCING SOMEONE TO BE FRIENDS WITH ME WHO ACTUALLY WANTS TO DATE ME.
  
  This is my argument with the friendzone. So you get feelings for someone, make friends with her, never tell her that you have any other intention than that, and when she happily goes on being friends with you somehow she’s done something wrong? Not only that, she’s somehow intentionally done it. Plus, its such a terrible thing to do because it’s such a punishment to be friends with someone.
  
  I had a couple of guy friends when I was a teenager who I had crushes on. I was too shy to say anything, so I just resigned myself to being friends with them, and tried not to mind too much when they went out with other girls. Especially if the other girls were people I had a low opinion of. The difference is I NEVER for a second blamed either of those guys for the fact that I WAS TOO SCARED to tell them that I liked them.
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http://www.dianadesim.tumblr.com/ Diana

I really liked this post. I’ve always hated the friend zone, and this really spoke out to me.
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christian arthur

Hate some of what this says -_- but guessa 15 yr old canhave this :/ ha!
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empathy

This is such a strange critique. The ‘Nice Guy’ response to rejection has a perfect mirror in the ‘Nice Girl’ response i.e. ‘Guys only want to date skinny brainless girls who flirt outrageously. Guys are too intimidated by how smart I am to want to date me’ etc etc. Really what the Nice Guy response is is a defense mechanism for rejection – and when people are hurt they can say mean things. Nice Guys and Nice Girls can say mean and stupid things, but they deserve a little pity rather than this abuse.
- John
  
  Truly nice guys and girls do have a set back in the dating world but if they’re smart enough they’re the ones that end up happier in the end and they’re not used by jerks as sex objects. Though there are truly nice guys and girls out there, and they’re truly great people. They may seem quieter or less popular but they do exist. Just most men and women don’t know where to look and even when a nice guy or girl finds them even if they are less attractive, most people will never notice. They’re just seen as a good friend and I’m starting to think more it is because of the shallowness of both men and women. Even here I heard somewhere that women date men they’re attracted to somewhat physically (in general) and do I een need to explain men. Though I do know people both male and female including myself that don’t care about looks. Though in the end a good life lesson to learn and a great experience to have comes with falling in love with a person you’re not physically attracted to. I’ve had it happen by giving genuinely nice girls a chance. Even though we didn’t work out in the end we did have a very good and long run while it lasted. I don’t regret it and I don’t feel like I was used at all. Just something to think about. Though like another said I’m not sure how much attention I’ll get on this site though I have to try and get a decent opinion out whether or not it deserves negative attention.
Michelle

This author, is just as bad as the men she describes. Shes demonizing men by making broad generalizations about men without any solid basis to back it up.

“One big thing I hate about Nice Guys is their implication that women who don’t want to date them, for whatever reason, are bitches, sluts, ugly” Is one such generalization. You assume all men are like this? Definitely feminist.
- Sarah
  
  Whoa, whoa, whoa. Nowhere did she generalize all men. She is talking about a very specific type of person who exhibits certain behaviors, which she describes in her article. And you seem to have a very uneducated view about what it is to be feminist. I can understand that, since we tend to be defined by the fringe that actually is pretty crazy, but a real feminist is someone who earnestly believes in eradicating hypocrisy on BOTH sides of gender relations. This is something that may be easily confused because of the name of our group, which originated when feminists were focused solely on women’s issues. But, as all groups, we have evolved since then. If it were even a few months ago I probably would have been saying the same thing, but I’ve done some research since then. I encourage everyone who hasn’t to look into modern feminism.
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lnsf

Maybe it’s because when women try to soften the blow they say something like, “You’re a nice guy. I’d just like to be friends.” All of the pieces are right there. The fellow is being rejected for being nice, and being put into the undesired place, the friend zone. I’ve said this myself in part because I assessed that he couldn’t handle the truth, and I wasn’t up for any more conflict and bad feeling than necessary. Also, maybe I felt sorry for him and wanted to offer friendship, in case he needed it (If he throws my friendship into my face by calling it the “friend zone” he releases me from the burden of feeling bad for him). Could saying “You’re a nice guy. I’d just like to be friends” when it’s not entirely true to avoid bad feelings be where the confusion is coming from?
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lloyddobbler

As someone who has spent time both in and out of the friendzone, I’ll say this. First, most guys who lament the friend zone are not the despicable, misogynistic human beings described the writer. Secondly, and this is important… if you’re friends with a guy, please do not continuously run to cry on his shoulder about the problems you are having with the other guys you are with on a romantic level, especially the ones who are obviously assholes (or worse). Many women tend to keep going back to guys that literally treat them like dirt, and then during the 80% of they are being treated like dirt by said guy, they come looking for the friend zone guy to tell him all about it and get advice. Then of course 2 days later, the asshole guy is the best guy in the world again, so the 2 hours spent talking with her seemingly amounts to wasted time. Then of 2 weeks later the situation inevitably repeats itself (and so on and so on…..) until they break up, and the next guy is an asshole too and guess who she runs to…..
- Sinci
  
  Maybe you are just listening to the women’s complaints instead of trying to see the other side of the picture. If I had a dime for all of the times a guy has said my boyfriend is an asshole, I would be able to pay all of my college tuition.
  
  In a relationship argument, people are going to present biased stories to you. Women look to other people to be their friends and give them unselfish advice. The “solution” to break up with a guy just to date you is selfish. You will run into your own problems if you and her actually begin to date, and she will turn to someone with a different perspective for advice to her biased story. Then that friend, if he happens to be a straight male, might call you an asshole and suggest that she date him instead of you.
  
  Wouldn’t you feel it was unfair for someone to try to steal your relationship based on problems he doesn’t understand about your relationship? All couples argue.
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Melissa Williams

I have had thousands of encounters with single women, looking or not looking, and I have one word for these encounters – rejection. Why? They don’t know my name, they don’t know my work history, they don’t know where I live, they don’t know how much money I have, they don’t even know anything about me. So, why did they reject me?

Because I am a ‘sweet guy.’

They saw it, read it and rejected it.

End of story.

Women are wired to desire an alpha male. Biologically he can provide food, shelter, protection and safety, and in the modern age – money.

When I encounter a woman who is ‘looking,’ and she sees me, recognizes that I am not an alpha male and decides, ‘Oh my Gosh, that person is not an alpha male.. Oh I want that person! I don’t like the guys I typically encounter, I want to talk to that person!’ Even if she is conscious of this decision, she will then communicate her desire to talk to me (if I haven’t read it already, which in all cases I have), then turn it all around to me and put the pressure and expectation on me – to be the very thing she knows I am not! Which is an alpha male. It is in her wiring. I have had very literal and clear encounters with different women whom I have read, analyzed and understood very carefully, and this is what happens – every time. On some level they want me, but on a more instinctual level they have no desire whatsoever to speak with me and, in fact, are looking for an alpha male.

They may not be conscious of it, but, let’s look at the evidence -

I have lived in my city for over 14 years. I have had a ten month relationship, and approximately five years later, I went on a date. I ‘looked’ for a period of four years between 2004 in April and 2008 in May. The area I live in was teeming with people, and during these four years I was in hundreds if not over a thousand different encounters with women, aged 24ish to 48ish, I made friends, developed interests, socialized, had amazing times, met a variety of new people, and most people liked me.

I had one date.

During the time I have lived here I have had four semi-long term meaningful friendships, two with gay men and two with women. I know who I am and I generally know what is going on.

When you ask me if it is unbearable to be ‘friends’ with a person, normally I would say no. But if no one, literally No One -Zero- people date you, hook up with you, make love to you, developing lasting relationships with you, or even give a damn about you, then I would say yes it is unbearable to be ‘friends’ with someone who is a love interest. If people dated me, then I would not be bothered if other people said they just wanted to be friends. Being ‘friends’ with someone, in the context of someone who is or was a romantic interest is, quite simply put – a waste of time. So I don’t get put in the friendzone (which is a new word I have never used, by the way) because I am not stupid, and they can tell I won’t buy their bull.

If there are Actual Reasons why you will not date me, what are those ‘Reasons?’ You don’t know anything about me, you have never met me, so how could you have any reasons to reject me? But there it is – rejection. You rejected me before you even knew me, why? Because I am a ‘sweet guy.’

I have seen it literally over a thousand different times. Don’t tell me what I am or what I am not, because I know what I am and I know what I’m not, and if I don’t, I’ll figure it out.

When you call ‘nice guys’ ‘not nice,’ and at the same time you call everyone else ‘people who don’t suck,’ then it is -you- who is not nice.
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Anonymously & Insanely Yours

I truly believe in this day and age, we “people” in general, are just purely insecure for just about every little damn thing in life (myself included) to the very point where its just “Trivial”, “common culture”, its inbred-ed in us since childhood, you see it in pop MTV culture, you see it in the movies, you see it everywhere you go no matter what part or walk of life you travel on.

On top of all this madness, I also believe we “people” are becoming more and more anti-social than being socially connected on a global scale if you will to social networking $hits like Facebook or Myspace or Google+.

Big point here is that Everyone, (and yes I mean YOU and MYself included) are ALL out for their own selfish, personal self-interest. Thus, it being a cruel prejudice, and materialistic world as it is, and as we live in it, we people will hold anyone/anything to the highest of our own personal shallow standards and discard anything that we see as inferior or unattractive.

Everyone has 2 faces when it comes to interacting with other people

A public mask and private mask:

Take a moment to differentiate those two things…. its not hard, really… but really think about it.

People with their public mask will say what “they feel” is “right for themselves” to other people that only serves one purpose, which is to preserve their public face value/ image or what not.

However once people have shed their public mask off and replace with their darker, true blue colors, Private mask, be it on zhe internet or behind the wheel of their gas guzzling, ozone polluting, planet-killing piece of garbage, internet fiends like myself to exert what “they” really think of you. And trust me it is truly ugly…

*sighs*

There I feel slightly better…. after letting out my angry anti-social demon out of the box.

Honestly I take great offense to this “entry” of the Nice Syndrome.

First reaction to it is I find it hypocritically ironic…. enough said.

But I do understand where you are coming from. (and I mean no BS cliche on saying that, because I have to live with that harsh reality of being Nice Guy)

It would probably not occur to you, but I have a very good valid reason why
“some” not all but “some” nice guys put on the mask of being the “Nice Guy”

I used to be a punk, no exaggeration, I was a self-serving asshole kid growing up in the suburbs who felt the world revolve around me.

Being 25 now, I still suffer from the ramifications of my messed up passed, with tons of lost and broken life long friendships. I don’t recall now of having any real true relationships anymore, because of the way I am. I can’t even put to you how lonely it feels to know what its like to be a true asshole, it sucks… and sadly I accepted it and must live and adapt to it.

Okay by now most of what I just typed may look like I got serious issues, and practically jumping all over the place, which one of many reasons why I absolutely despise reading soul searching stuff like this. Its infectious and contagious,

But anyway, pure and simple I think most people are just shallow as hell, and heavily insecure too (I know that all too well myself), and you know what? it is I what I call Ceteris Paribus, sorry but its just the way it is. Is there any way of changing that reality? HELL NO!! I blame the media and culture for propagating this sick reality that we live, its their fault… okay good night.
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I was often placed in the friend zone as a young man and often desribed as “too nice”. One day after traveling the world I realized, only in America is being “too nice” considered a bad thing. In Asian it is actually value. I concluded that gender relations are extremely dysfunctional in this country wherein women mistake loudness with confidence. Make no mistake, I was athletic as hell, 6 feet tall, muscular and an avid track runner and sports player though was simply shy and sweet. Incredibly, I found that I got along best with Asian women who actually value nice people. I suggest all nice American guys should simply date Asian women to know their true value. It is a fresh of breath air. Now in my 30s and with a Ph.D. in a hard science and now faculty member at Harvard with half a million in the bank, I’m happily married to an Asian woman. We now have a lovely little baby! A curious thing has started to happen in my 30s. I notice that nice men start becoming more desirable with age to older women and the young women who were once the center of attention but have now aged have a dramatically reduced desirability. It’s almost as if the dating “value” of each gender completely reverses as you age. The nice guys now in their 30s can easily date women in their 20s while the women who are in their 30s are having a harder time dating anyone. Life works in mysterious ways and the older I get the better I understand the world. My advice to younger guys is simply look outside the US if you can as divorce rates are actually lower when marrying foreign women than marrying American. Just my take.
- zdrav
  
  Nah dude, you were just able to leverage your white privilege way more in Asia than in America. It has nothing to do with ” good Asian values”.
  - Womanhahahahaha
    
    Yes it does, Asians are good people Americans are Scandalous
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The reason i dont like the friend zone is because women only do that out of pity if you are only being cool with me outta sympathy because i like you yet you dont want anything more than friendship thats not true friendship an its just as wrong as a guy only wanting to be friends for sex which by the way thats not true about all nice guys nobody wants your pity just for you to simply help them with their needs an yes…. i am saying sex is a need the nice guy helps you with whatever
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The “bad boy/Aholes” act just as “entitled” to a womens body as a nice guy does and they get laid all the time….So somehow this sense of “entitlement” over a womens body/sex is completely unacceptable when it’s a nice guy doing it but it’s okay when a cocky dickhead does it???

The “entitlement” part is a bullshit red herring….Women don’t avoid nice guys because they hate their sense of “entitlement”! If that was the case than they would avoid the Aholes to as they act even more entitled to sex with a women….So stop with the bogus red herring….Women like Aholes because they are dominant over them (women love to be dominated) and act aggressively…Period end of story.
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Yondy

As much as I want to agree with you, I am afraid that for some people the friend zone does exist. It is out there, just not as often as people make it seem. I guess it’s story time…

Many months ago I met this girl (let’s call her Liza) and I thought she was perfect in every way. She and I talked a lot and we shared many of the same interests. I tried not to rush into anything, so I kept my intentions a secret. We became very good friends. All that time I was totally star struck over her. I took her to the movies several times, I took her out to dinner, I took her out for ice cream, all that good stuff. She even went as far enough to invite me to celebrate her birthday with her family. I had gotten her a $40 necklace as a way to tell her that I was interested. At that point I didn’t know whether or not she was. After that I saw her wearing it almost all the time. Then one Friday night we went to see the Taken sequel (at her request) and after I took her to get ice cream. It had been a couple months at that point and I finally told her that I loved her. She was taken aback and asked if we could speak
outside. Nothing in the world could have prepared me for that. She told me “Yondy, (not my real name) my last relationship didn’t end very well, and because of that I never talk to my ex anymore. I really don’t want that to happen to us, because I value our friendship too much.” I agreed with her of course. However, driving her home while fighting the tears back was one of the hardest things to do in my life. I was at a loss for words, I understood what she meant, but I “hated” her for making me feel like this. I hated myself for not making my intentions clear. I still respected her, and that didn’t make me love her any less. Was it my fault for saying i loved her? Was it her fault for not taking the hint? I have eventually decided that all of that was my fault. i never should have told her how i felt. I know some people might be thinking that i only wanted her for sex, but i know for a fact it wasn’t true. Whenever i looked at her, i realized that i could die a virgin as long as it was me who was buried beside her for the rest of eternity. I understand her wanting to be friends, and i am okay with that. I never complained or said anything negative about it. Now whenever i see her i am still filled with these emotions, but i feel guilty for still feeling this way. The worst part is, after that night I never saw her wear that necklace I got for her again.

Story over. I understand that this is probably the same story every man tells. But I firmly believe in unrequited love. The friend zone exists, just not too the extent people want you to believe. The friend zone is a temporary emotion where you are filled with love, anger, confusion, hatred, and sadness. People usually go through this after realizing that their love is unrequited. It disappears after a few days. But even though I still find myself longing for her love every day. Think what you want about me, call me a misogynist. I probably am for all I know. I just wanted to get my story out there, and hopefully someone could give me advice.
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I was a nice guy never got any were turn into a ahole now everyone whats me Here’s how it works people!!

1 nice person meets a ass doesn’t matter witch one is nice girl or boy they date or worst tie the knot, After a couple of year the nice one starts to turn into a ass, next thing poof they be come a ass. Now that they are both ass’s they can’t get along so the split and go on to convert more nice people into ass, this will happen until the world is covered in ass’s and God give it a enema !! The end.
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http://www.facebook.com/crazymexican1545 Jaime Ibarra

so what if i am a nice guy. i respect my best friend both of them. i don’t want to sleep with ether of them but one has put me in the friend zone. yet i still talk to her about my life i listen to her guy problems and give her advice about how to deal with a guy, just like i do to about 10-15 other girls who have also friendzoned me and then came to me for help. does that make me a d bag because i want to help them and i am a nice person, and i have wanted to date them to make them happy but they said no. and i say i am in the friend zone because they didn’t say no. they said you are to good of a friend. thats were the friend zone came from. no is one thing you are too good of a friend and i don’t want to change that. thats another thing. if you think im not man enogh to just accept no then how am i the d bag, doesn’t that make you a bitch for not saying no and keeping my hopes up and from that then i think o well i still have a chance with them so ill just ask some other time. and what if i can make someone truly happy because i know them. and i know what they like. does that make me a d bag for wanting some i care about to be happy??
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jonnydog

this concept has been around much longer than the movie. I agree that it’s bullshit, but not just because of the ‘nice guys’. there is a lot of truth to the concept. There is a competing demand from men, by women. Men are expected to be exciting and mysterious and spontanious, and yet women also want men to be dependable and reliable and caring and sweet. The two roles are very difficult to meld into one
DoctorMuff

All of this is just a woman’s ways of telling the manginas that they need to man up. stop trying to take a made up shortcut though friendship-town into knickers-town, it’s not a real shortcut it’s just been signposted as one, it’s actually lots of roundabouts and traffic lights. women haven’t got time for waiting in traffic, they need to be fucked right now. so go straight to poon-town… it’s not as far as you think.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Grahame-Turner/1804093 Grahame Turner

I just discovered this, and I dig it. I am also late to the party. It’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. Mostly because I think this is treating a symptom, rather than the actual issue.

Here’s what’s been in my head: After getting shot down, and having variations of the “Just friends” speech recited to me, I have definitely felt like there’s some intangible force field that surrounds a lot of my relationships with ladies. So, I definitely see the appeal of a concept like the Friend Zone, because it allows us to create an explanation for why women don’t like us that’s simple and lets us off easy. It’s tough to put your heart out there, and think something might be blossoming, only to get it shot down; it kind of hurts.

The real problem comes when a guy starts to identify with it, instead of taking a long, hard look at himself. Eventually, a guy has to stop finding excuses and realize that, while he may be a great guy deep down, that isn’t enough; you have to find ways to make those great elements of yourself show on the outside. If women aren’t seeing how great you are, it’s probably because you’re doing something wrong.

So, there’s a lot wrong with the concept of the Friend Zone…
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705675577 Kevin Kennedy

I was placed in the ‘friend zone’ by a dear female friend-21 YEARS AGO…all of my female friends I’ve known for more than 15 years…but all I wanted from them was sex, right? The ‘friend zone’ is a reality-whether you give it credence or not. When you watch a woman you are friends with go from one guy who basically tortures her mentally, to another guy who tortures her physically and takes her money, to another guy who won’t be faithful to her, to another guy who is an alcoholic…yet she’ll never date YOU because she says ‘you are too nice.’ WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? When you have women cry on your shoulder for TWO DECADES PLUS, saying that they wish they could find a ‘good man’ and still they associate themselves with the absolute WORST type of male-childish, jobless, and without any common interests except for the interest in having sex and getting a woman to pay for everything. I am a nice guy. I now am in a relationship with a woman I’ve known for 23 years…and it took her to get married, divorced, and taken advantage of to see that I wasn’t a bad choice. Men who have female friends do get really tired of seeing their female friends have relationships with guys they know are total $hite. That we tend to stop telling them after awhile seems to help more than explaining why. I learned (possibly too late) that the absolute best course of action is to withdraw my friendship if I don’t like the person that my ‘friendgirl’ is dating. It saves me a bunch of headaches and having to listen while a woman tries to figure out how to ‘fix’ the man (boy) she’s messing with. Oh…and I don’t call women bitches just because they don’t ‘give it up’ to me. I have called a woman insane because she does the same thing over and over and expects a different result….Men do the same thing at times. WOMEN-here’s a piece of advice: NEVER TAKE A MAN ON AS A ‘RECLAMATION’ PROJECT. If he’s ‘perfect except for (insert personality quirk or significant dealbreaking issue here)’ YOU CAN’T FIX IT. ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE USED CARS -BUY AS-IS, expect breakdowns, realize there is no repair shop for them (because they’re not manufactured anymore.
- John
  
  The problem I have with the whole nice guy arguement is that a lot of nice guys can stand being friends with a woman who rejected them and expect nothing more. Yeah these nice guys don’t mind if she goes out with other guys but when they try to be a true friend and question her about the types of guys she’s dating or staying in a relationship with (guys who are obviously jerks to everyone and don’t hide it) these nice guys are now jerks/assholes. Again a lot of nice guys don’t care that the woman they once had interest in is now with someone else, they just wonder why those women just don’t choose better guys or stick with abusive guys. Yes they know it is the female friend’s choice of who to date, but so are the consequences. I honestly don’t see how nice guys wondering why they can’t find a woman (whether she is attractive or not) when their female friend is complaining about the jerks they’re dating is an asshole. Jerks of course being defined by their female friend and not them. A lot of nice guys also wonder what’s wrong with themselves because they can’t find a girlfriend and when they ask they get no honest answer. Yes it gets to some nice guys because there does come a certain point in your life when people (in general) start judging you based on your lack of dating experience.
http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais

what a cunt you wouldn’t like it if a guy you liked and treated very well. blew you off for a stripper would you? why should guys like that? why is it wrong we demand respect not to be used like a Kleenex
http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais

every single woman that has been abused, cheated on, or left as a single mother is proof women like assholes

Nice Guy Syndrome And The Friend Zone

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