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Feminspire | July 10, 2014

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Nice Guy Syndrome And The Friend Zone

Nice Guy Syndrome And The Friend Zone

I’m pretty sure everyone knows at least one Nice Guy. You know, those guys who think women only want to date assholes and just want be friends with the nice guys. These guys are plagued with what those of us who don’t suck call Nice Guy Syndrome.

Jeff Fecke of Shakesville.com explained Nice Guy Syndrome well here:

All right. Seriously. A Nice Guy® is a guy who tells you, in a bitter, resentful tone, that women don’t date “nice guys,” they only date “bad boys,” and because he’s “too nice,” women only view him as a friend.

Um… that doesn’t sound very nice.

One big thing I hate about Nice Guys is their implication that women who don’t want to date them, for whatever reason, are bitches, sluts, ugly, or whatever other nasty insult they can come up with. But the thing I hate most? The Friend Zone.

Even Superman is a Nice GuyThe Friend Zone is a bullshit, misogynistic, make-believe land Nice Guys have come up with to demonize women for not wanting to date them. They use it as an excuse to ignore the fact that there are Actual Reasons behind their decision to not pursue a relationship or have sex with this guy. You know, like not being physically attracted to them. Or not being able to connect with them. Or seeing through their crap and realizing that the only reason these guys are even friends with them in the first place is so they can get laid.

It’s honestly one of the biggest loads of crap I’ve ever heard. Nice Guys are arrogant, egotistical, selfish douche bags who run around telling the world about how they’re the perfect boyfriend and they’re just so nice. But you know what? If these guys were genuinely nice, they wouldn’t be saying things like “the bitch stuck me in the friend zone because she only likes assholes.” Guess what? If she actually only liked assholes, then she would likely be super attracted to you because you are one.

Honestly. Is it really that unbearable to be friends with a person? Women don’t only exist to date or have sex with you. We are living, thinking creatures who maybe—just maybe—want to date and sex people we’re attracted to. And that doesn’t make any of us bitches. It makes us human.

Just Friends, the early beginnings of the Friend ZoneI feel like Nice Guy Syndrome and the existence of the Friend Zone really exploded in 2005 when the movie Just Friends came out. The main character, portrayed by Ryan Reynolds, was always just a friend to the love of his life… until, of course, the end, when she magically fell in love with him.

Movies like this are really kind of poisonous. It puts the idea into people’s heads that if they wait out the Friend Zone, the woman responsible for their distress will just wake up one day and realize they’re in love with them. And they’ll tell themselves (and everyone else) they deserve it, over and over again. But you know what? You don’t deserve the dirt on my shoe if you don’t treat me with respect. Actual respect, not the kind you feign in an attempt to get me into bed with you.

This is my message to all the Nice Guys out there: if you call a woman a bitch, a slut, a skank, a whore, ugly, whatever, because she doesn’t want you, you are not nice. If you’re only nice to a woman because you want to be with her, you are not nice. And if you whine about constantly being Friend Zoned, it’s probably because you are not nice. End of story.

Written by Alisse Desrosiers
Follow her on Twitter, Tumblr, and at her blog, femetits!

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  • http://www.robotsandlace.com/ Jess Mary

    one of my favorite quotes: “women are not vending machines for you to put in niceness and get out sex.”

    • M

      But at the same time that’s exactly what D-Bags that women like so much think of you women as. The D-Bags think you are basically a blowup doll out of a vending machine and once they get you home all their confidence stops. They had confidence at the bar but once they get you home they have ZERO confidence and think of you as literally a blowup doll that would come out of a vending machine. Then once they got you home they don’t any confidence to talk to you hence (why the immediately leave when they are done with you in bed). Once the D-Bags are done with you in bed the D-Bags would much rather put a needle in you and watch you deflate then talk with you after they are done.

      • John

        Not all nice guys call women who don’t date them bitches. I’m sure this happens to nice girls too. What nice people wonder is why the opposite gender goes out with people they say they hate. Yes frustraion comes along with it. Sure nobody is perfect but you can’t relate someones frustration to date people who say they want things that they trly don’t. Well the men women complain about learn how to manipulate them and use them for sex. Not all nice guys mind being friends with women and not all nice guys befriend women to date them down the line. I agree with M here. I will admit during frustration not all of a nice guys words to prove his point aren’t necessarily nice but for sure true nice guys don’t insult the women that turn them down. Women say nice guys are “too nice” then when they’re not passive and try to show you’re choosing the wrong men then you start to hate them. If you dated more men not looking to just sleep with you and leave we might not be as frustrated. If you say that you never know a man’s intentions then look at the men you’re dating and try different types of men (as a suggestion). I’m a good guy, no I don’t insult women who don’t date me, no I don’t care if women just want men who want to use them for sex (yes I’d try to warn them. If they don’t listen it’s their problem when it happens). No I can’t seem to get a date but to be honest I really don’t care, after I get a degree in physics I’m off to get a job somewhere. People may say I’m a beta male, but keep in mind the only reason why I’m this beta male is because I’m not going to manipulate women into dating me. If I never date I’m fine with that. I know plenty of more men out there like me and if you truly want us well give us a chance and don’t let us pass by. The more women reject us the less we care about dating in general.

        • Tyler

          I see what John is saying. I mean what decent person would put relationships before personal success. I agree with him that there are a lot of nice guys out there you just need to know where to look. There are truly nice guys out there who want to date more for connection and don’t care about sex. They understand that you’re not sexually attracted to them but they know there’s more to that. I’ve noticed that once you get past looks and look at personality attraction really isn’t that shallow of a thing all the time though you can never know this based off one date and from experience I found that I tend to reveal a lot less about myself with friends then with girlfriends. So I can see why a nice guy would wonder why a woman would date a jerk over a genuine nice friend. Though I don’t see the need for taking it to heart. If anything dating just for sexual appeal over dating what is better for you in the end just shows that they’re not ready for a serious relationship with comittment no matter how much a person would say that they’re ready. I believe mself that dating should start out with friendship and dating shouldn’t involve sex necessarily, especially when it first starts out. Sex should be an expression of love and not really just for sexual pleasure. Of course sex will come along in dating but it shouldn’t be the reason behind who you date. Though in the end it’s about finding the right person. I would agree that most if not all jerks have learned how to manipulate women, and I think it goes in vice versa too. If you know where to look you may date less but you’ll date better overall and if you just want to base a relationship with sexual attraction over a good person then you can’t really blame the other gender for having few good relationships. Though nice guys aren’t perfect either and will make mistakes so please don’t hate them for their mistakes. There are a lot of good guys out there who will ask a woman out if they think they will click with her and not to just have sex with her. In my opinion this is how it should be and if anyone disagree well it’s their choice of beliefs and I won’t dislike them for it. It may or may not be true in cases that nice guys finish last though to be honest I don’t see finishing last as a bad thing. In the time you are sile or dating they’re experiences you earn from, people learn in different way but overall either way we grow as a person.

        • Dominic Blais

          it does happen to nice girls and they get 1000 guys going oh i willl help you while the man who gets treated like shit for being respectful gets shamed and ridiculed for being a decent human being

      • Lilbit

        Part of the problem is guys thinking that women are only attracted to guys that are “nice”; that these women aren’t out at the bar looking to hook up with a hottie that makes their goodies tingle. Men think that women are having sex just to get guys to like them and not, you know, to get their fun time in. These men think that these women are falling in love with these assholes and giving up sex to keep these assholes they love. Men don’t understand that women are human beings with sex drives and physical attractions. They don’t believe women can think with anything other than their oh so tender heart. They think these women are being used because they see them as children without a clue as to what they want or how to get it. Imagine all the bitterness and frustration gone by assuming women are human beings that lust.
        Your problem is thinking that these girls aren’t think the same thing about this guy.

    • Jack

      Lol yeah they are.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais

      nope but if she uses his niceness and leads him on she becomes the abuser and the user not him. not all nice guys call women names for it ( but when they do they have every right too especially if she used him )i think women do not understand how cruel and mean they can be. pretty in pink all women love it but she abuses the nice guy in the end

      • Lumatica

        Dude, you got rejected. Get over it.

      • Papayajuice

        Wow. The poor nice guy finally figured out that women aren’t vending machines for sex. I feel so sorry for him.

      • Anonymous

        No, you don’t get it. If a guy acts like he is a “friend” and is offering to help he is misrepresenting his real intentions. His female friend accepts favors because she thinks he is doing it because they are friends. Isn’t it something friends do for each other? If a guy doesn’t want to end up in such a situation he needs to be honest upfront and ask her on a date instead of offering to help as a friend. And to all the guys out there: women are not going to get physically attracted to you because you do nice things for them. The same way you don’t get attracted to ugly women because they are nice. Yes we do look at your looks just as much as you do at ours.

    • Dominic Blais

      yes they are other wise your promoting rape culture. because what one guy does is not rape while another guy who is not perfect does the exact same thing he is rapist

      • Lumatica

        Let me help you here. If you force a woman to have sex with you, it is rape. If two people have sex with consent (that is, they both wanted it) that is not rape. You’re welcome.

    • Matthew Russell

      you’re right. you have to put in dickishness, axe bodyspray, and dismissive behavior to get the sex

    • ran

      but it seems bad boys put in evil and get it. so why can’t niceness buy it?

  • http://twitter.com/abbeybabbling Abigail Lewis

    THIS IS STELLAR! seriously.
    In a roundabout way there is also so much victim shaming coming from nice guys. Like, “well, if she’s only going to date assholes, obviously she’s going to get hurt, she should open her eyes.” Excuse me?

    • brookstyle

      Yeah. No one should ever shame another for making obviously stupid choices over and over. Thats blaming the victim.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705675577 Kevin Kennedy

      I don’t shame women for this…but if there is a pattern and a woman who I’m friends with asks me-I do point out the pattern. That’s what friends are for, right? Women who tend to chase men that are unobtainable in some way are like men who do the same. Shame doesn’t come from outside sources. Women have the intuition to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG, and do it anyhow…just like men do. Very little difference in the mentality.

    • windskisong

      See my comment below – I watched this, then finally unintentionally became one of those when I told them to shove off… And was promptly asked out.
      But no longer interested.

  • http://www.facebook.com/leahnm Leah Nicole Moreno

    Also, “Just Friends” gave the message that if you’re in the friend zone, just become really hot and she’ll want you. You know, because women are shallow and base all of their relationship decisions on how you look and how much money you make.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alisse.desrosiers Alisse Marie

      Really good point, thank you for bringing it up! That movie pisses me off so much, I can’t even put into words how much I hate it.

      • JJJJJ

        I’m not a nice guy. That’s why I’m calling you the gutter-trash stuck up white-trash honky cunt that you are.

    • windskisong

      Umm… seen it time and again. Watched women stay in abusive relationships while pouring out their pain on the nice guys around them. Ironically, when I stopped putting up with the crap and told two of them to tell their sob stories to someone else, I wasn’t listening anymore… both of them asked me out within the week, but I was not longer interested. It wasn’t (only) that they were shallow, but because they genuinely did not like being treated well in a relationship.

      • Suzie Q

        Right! Sure! There are so many lazy, unhealthy men who go up to a very attractive woman “9 or 10″ (as they say) and don’t look in the mirror. But even then, maybe she’s just not into you. She owes you nothing! What’s with the entitlement?

        • sen

          when you feel entitled you don’t feel like you have to jump through hoops or woe someone you idiot. People like you are why white knights are a thing of the past. who the bigger ass hole. The guy who does not realize it is a lost cause or the woman for taking advantage when she clearly knows what she’s doing.

      • UppityBlackWoman

        So when you finally stood up for yourself and grew a pair, they realized you knew your own self-worth and found you more interesting.

        • Bobb

          yeah inhibited brainless scum. cause in your bimbo mind telling to a person i dont give a fuck for your problems is growing a pair, and makes you attractive. and being genuinely nice and empathetic with her isnt…

      • Isabelle

        Why do people use such dumb arguments to prove their point. Facepalm. How can you be so cruel to someone who is drawn to an abusive relationship – you do realise this can coincide with childhood trauma? If you genuinely want to help, you can direct these women to support services, and not whinge about how you are the victim in the situation.

      • Simon

        Typical bullshit “Nice Guy”TM victim blaming.

      • Bobb

        you said it man. such a 180 degrees turn when you become a scum. better become a monk than waste time with these temperamental nutjobs…

    • Dominic Blais

      and they call us shallow because we think they shouldn’t be unhealthy obese

      • dingdong

        Follow the golden rule: If you’re overweight and unhealthy, you deserve nothing better.

    • This article is a joke.

      Ah, fuck that.
      and I quote: “You know, like not being physically attracted to them.”

      250 lbs. Never had a girlfriend in undergrad. Grad school and post Ph. D. even some of those girls are now blowing me up. What’s changed? Well I didn’t Jared it… Nope, I became successful, which ultimately = $$. Girls are as shallow, if not, more so than men. You’d be lying to yourself to think otherwise. Nothing gives me more satisfaction then telling those shallow girls from my past to go hang out with that douche that cheats on them, treats them like shit, and ignores them. Hahahaha.

      • Isabelle

        What is with the generalisation? Yep, without a doubt some girls are gold diggers, that does not change the validity of the argument (which is that ‘nice guys finish last’ is unfair)… or are you implying that because you became wealthy your fundamental character changed and you are no longer a “nice guy”? Don’t see the logic of your argument.

        Also, just reflect on this: “Nothing gives me more satisfaction then telling those shallow girls from
        my past to go hang out with that douche that cheats on them, treats
        them like shit, and ignores them. Hahahaha.” – these are unkind words, and if you feel so spiteful you wish to inflict pain, you’re not worthy of a relationship. Seriously introspection people. Yep. Nice guys.

        • This article is a joke.

          “Nice guys finish last” is unfair? We didn’t read the same article. That’s neither her nor there. This article rips on a guys, not all of which deserve it.

          However, my particular comment was to address Moreno’s post who states that this idea is false:

          “You know, because women are shallow and base all of their relationship decisions on how you look and how much money you make.”

          Yet in the article, the author states one reason as not being physically attractive. Now while I am agreeing looks don’t matter, I do know that being a nice guy is extremely underrated.

          My experiences that I talk about is incredibly brief, so let me elaborate on my life story.

          I was always made fun of, I was fat from grade school on. I busted my
          ass to get in better shape through sports and did so by my senior year.
          In high school, I asked three different girls out. Two of were worried about what others would say and the other girl, whom I still talk to, simply said she didn’t feel that way. One evaluated me for who I am, the other two evaluated me for what I would do for them. I never made fun of anyone. I never asked anyone to hang out with me. I went to school, talked to those that talked to me, payed attention, dominated exams. Never made fun of anyone for doing poorly and always tried to help other students struggling. I never made fun of girls or objectified them.
          I resigned to the idea that it was because I was fat and unattractive.
          First year in college, I owned chemistry classes. I would come home drunk on Friday nights to friends (girls and guys) finishing chem homework (due at 11:59 pm, haha) and I would try to help them (do it for them because I am too drunk explain it). I went to events with my floor, made friend with them all. I developed feelings for one girl, I told her how I felt. Which is hysterical for so many reasons, but she was just told the same thing by another guy earlier that day.
          Of course she chose the little man boy pretty guy over the 250 lb fat kid.
          I didn’t do her homework because I wanted to fuck her, actually, she was one of the few that didn’t ask me to do her homework. I did tons of fun things with her, I was nice, genuinely so, but I honestly fell for her. She destroyed me later but that’s not for this story.
          This is how it went.
          I do nice things for everyone. Sometimes I develop feelings for girls I’m spending time with. I’d smoke people out without ever asking them to match me if they didn’t offer. I helped them study, with their homework, with their ideas. I helped them move, clean, and take care of the shit in their lives that you know, it’s just easier if you have a friend to help.
          Yet, time and time again, when I ask girls out (not all of them mind you, there are only 4-5). One girl simply yelled “I’m not going to have sex with you!” Yelled it, like “As good as it get” Helen Hunt style. Another girl told me I’m not her type. Lots of girls just made it clear that we would just be friends.

          These girls were friends of mine, and friends of my roommates, so I stayed friends with them. They would come and whine to me about how they can’t find a good guy who likes them. Not a hot guy, not a successful guy, a good guy.

          I’m not racists, I’m not sexist, I don’t call girls names for not dating me, I don’t hit women, I don’t hit on women in those ridiculous manners, I don’t do nice things for favors in return, I do them because I had a rough childhood of no friends and always being made fun of. I do them because I’m extremely empathetic and no the worse feeling to have is feeling alone. Even the most socially awkward odd ball could come hang out with me. I’d have girls complain about inviting my mopy friend or my trashier friend but I’d rather that then exclude someone. Apparently, I still do not qualify as a good guy. I spend more time helping people than I did myself in Undergrad.

          Nothing has changed in grad school or after. My labmates loved me. I go out of my way to help them with their projects. I do anything for them with in reason. One nice outcome of my way is that I’ve developed a long list of people who live their life by my motto and I keep them in my life. It’s a simple one that I’ve learned: “Treat other people like you want to be treated”.

          I don’t think that my fundamental character has changed at all. That is my point Isabelle. I’m still a genuinely caring person, but my life has taught me something else, Self respect. I’m still fat, albeit I’ve got a bit more style and am a little more attractive than my younger days. I’m still empathetic and nice, I guess the only difference is that I now have my Ph. D. I will now have a good position. Nothing else has changed.

          So why now, after almost a decade, 4 girls who told me know in undergrad have either made a move (yes tried to kiss me, lol) or made it painfully obvious that I should ask them on a date? What am I to think? An entire life of being called fat, of hearing no from girls, more often because of some bullshit excuse like, “We’re such good friends, I don’t want to lose you”. Yet, every time you see a post talking about how in love a girl is with her husband, she’s always saying something like “He’s my best friend…” Yeah, right, “we’re such good friends, I don’t want to lose you by saying no, you’re too fat/ugly for me to consider getting naked with”

          I think a more important question for me, is why should I even entertain the idea? At one point they were so arrogant to think I wasn’t good enough for them? Or maybe they just now realized the guys in college they were chasing were actually douche bags, like I told them. I can’t bring myself to date someone that shallow, someone who feels like they’re settling, or a gold digger.

          Why should I put my heart into someone who broke mine so they could get plowed by douche after douche in our 20s. Now they’re 28-30, single, and running out of hot. No thank you, I’m not going to be a consolation prize. Why should I consider dating someone who I know really isn’t into me, but just desperate for a boyfriend? I’m not desperate. I will die alone before I date/marry someone who doesn’t love me for the genuine nice person in me. They saw that person 10 years ago, and they had that chance.

          • Anonymous

            No, you shouldn’t date them now. No one says you should. 90% of Men and women ARE shallow to the core. The idea is to find a genuine one. It’s rare. It takes two very special people to fall in love and have a good relationship.

      • lilbit

        “Nothing gives me more satisfaction then telling those shallow girls from my past to go hang out with that douche that cheats on them, treats them like shit, and ignores them. Hahahaha”
        But I’m a nice guy… just ask me, I’ll tell you!

        • This article is a joke.

          Should I show them more respect then they showed me? I am a nice guy, I also have respect for myself.

    • Dominic Blais

      the difference between rape and consent is how the guy looks sadly

    • Suzie Q

      Women, they’re shallow. It’s their fault. They are the stupid ones and the men well they can just let themselves go or present themselves as unhealthy, a crap job, disheveled, weak or insecure and just go up to them and … Oh, that’s right why are they going up to the adventurous, attractive, accomplished female again??? If she likes you that’s great. It not about looks, it is about confidence.

    • Lee Georgeson

      Well I know plenty of nice guys who would treat their girls like princesses. They are you guessed it, alone, or even virgins.

      • dingdong

        That’s one problem. Treat her like a friend, not a princess or a goddess that is worshiped.

    • longer than you on this market

      You are so right. Women are shallow.

  • http://twitter.com/SavannahKThomas Savannah Thomas

    Brilliantly written.

  • Wendy Kroy

    “Or seeing through their crap and realizing that the only reason
    these guys are even friends with them in the first place is so they can
    get laid.”

    If that’s the case, and the men are so abhorrent that they should be detested…why maintain the friendship? Why not confront the guy and end the friendship then and there? It would seem that the strong, independent woman would immediately cease the friendship then and there, either through a simple “I like you but I am not attracted to you” or by your more forceful, “You are only nice to me to get laid.” Yet, the idea of the Friend Zone persists because, it would appear, the friendship persists, with all the advantages said friendship carries. Why?

    • McG

      This happened to me. The guy was really cool and one of the most hilarious people I met. He persisted that we should date, and even though I didn’t feel that way about him, I gave it a shot. After two months, I told him “Hey listen, I really like you as a best friend, but I just don’t feel this way about you.” He was an asshole for a little after (I could understand, he just got broken up with) but we went back to being friends. Eventually we grew apart. I guess the point is that, I loved him as a friend. We were best friends. I just wanted to believe so hard that that could be enough for him too.

      • windskisong

        When Harry Met Sally: “Men and Women can’t be friends. The sex thing always gets in the way.” :-) It is true that it’s hard to be friends if one of you is attracted. Seems like that problem went away once I was married. With the opposite sex friends (other than my wife), the attraction problem went away on both sides, and we could be actual friends.

  • Lauren Mary

    AMEN!

  • Voice Of Reason

    It seems that just about everybody has a mental illness nowadays. Most mental illnesses are non existent, only diagnosed as such so they can keep the drug industry running.

    This is especially the case with children. Most child mental disorders are a direct result of a poor diet . Instead of feeding their children a healthy diet and working on their childs development, parents would rather just wait until the child is old enough and pump drugs into them.

    It’s poor, lazy parenting.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alisse.desrosiers Alisse Marie

      Wow, ignoring ALL THE THINGS wrong with this comment, I need to comment on the fact that you commented about mental illness… on a feminist article. Either you commented on the wrong post, or you’re actually insinuating that feminism is a mental illness. Please, feel free to clarify.

      • http://www.facebook.com/thorvington.finglethorpe Thorvington Finglethorpe

        Feminism isn’t mental illness, but a great many of the most virulent feminists are undeniably mentally ill. I refer you, specifically, to the concept of “delusions of persecution,” specifically, in the DSM.

  • Iodhan

    I wonder if there isn’t something deeper here. Most men find it difficult to be friends with women in the first place when sexual attraction enters the picture. Once that becomes an issue, there is an immediate differential in which both parties view the relationship. One wants romance and/or sex, the other does not. It complicates things. However, guys have been taught through just as many movies that if you stick around and wait it out, eventually you get the girl usually by becoming a hero of some type.

    The problem with “The friend zone”, isn’t simply that it exists, but that it is perpetuated as much by women as by men. I have known countless women who keep such men around as a “Fallback” or just because having someone there feeds their ego and so they lead them on to a certain point. Placing all the blame on men without addressing the female component of this does not tell the entire story. I have known many, many more guys who got stuck in the friend zone this way, and many, many more women who encouraged it, than what this article posits.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Ryan/100001154558248 Mark Ryan

      Good show, old chap.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alisse.desrosiers Alisse Marie

      See my issue with the friend zone is the implication that women who don’t want the man in question are bitches, no questions asked. If you notice, I did specify that I was talking about Nice Guys ™, a specific type of asshole that really makes me rage. These men are not actually nice, sorry to say. It is absolutely possible that there are genuinely nice men out there who have been in an unrequited love situation but at the end of the day, women still don’t owe them sex and/or a relationship. That’s not to say that there aren’t shitty women who do purposely lead on people! There absolutely are. But being friends with a person DOES NOT count as ‘leading them on.’

      I would like to hear more about what you have to say about this. I mean that!

      • http://www.facebook.com/thorvington.finglethorpe Thorvington Finglethorpe

        Unless somebody calls you names, the “implication” that you’re a bitch is not an implication at all–it is somethign you have inferred from your own biases.

        Nobody owes anybody sex or a relationship, but it is also quite cruel to maintain an obviously unequal “friendship” with somebody you have no interest in whatsoever just because having one more “friend” stokes your ego and makes you feel less guilty about rejecting the person because you offered them a consolation prize.

  • Nojuan Especial

    Nice try ladies, but this “treatise” falls flat. Your
    argument seems to be born out of the chagrin you feel because we’re fed
    up with your hypocrisy and are calling you on it. You feel ashamed, and
    rightly so. That doesn’t make us liars. Why lie? We know it wouldn’t
    change anything.

    First of all, the Friend Zone happens in gay/lesbian
    couples as well, so it cannot be simply misogynistic. It’s just most
    common in heterosexual situations because straight women do it most
    often. This is because straight women befriend “safe”
    men and date “dangerous” ones. This is a common phenomenon and was
    identified LONG BEFORE the Friend Zone had a name or was formally
    identified.
    Nice Guys did not make up the Friend Zone, we just named it. YOU made it, one man at a time. Stabbing
    him in the face, heart, stomach and balls with each lament over some
    facet that your douche bag partners lack that we have.
    We aren’t ignoring ANYTHING. We KNOW you have reasons for putting men in the Friend Zone. That doesn’t mean it ceases to exist. We
    are well aware that you are not attracted to us for whatever reason
    applies. We just also see the hypocrisy of a woman lamenting -to a good
    man- that there are no good men. We see this as akin to complaining to the rain about a drought while using said rain to wash your hair.
    The Friend Zone’d man may indeed want to have sex
    with you- but that’s because he wants to BE WITH YOU. A man who only
    wants to get laid would not put up with the kind of pain a truly Friend
    Zone’d man does. He would probably have better luck than us at getting
    you in bed, and if not then he would leave you when he knew he wasn’t
    going to get any- that is what separates the Nice guys from the assholes
    you date. Hence why we’re called NICE GUYS and are your FRIEND, and
    you’re turning to us about that douche bag who sweet talked you into the
    sack and then took off faster than an F-15.
    This sad, mean attempt at a “defense” for your behavior
    only further proves our collective point: That the limits to your
    self-righteous delusion border on unfathomable.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Ryan/100001154558248 Mark Ryan

      I simply cannot give this enough thumbs up. Good show, old chap.

    • scarlettglass

      Wow, it’s hilarious that you self-identify as the kind of whiny asshole this article is talking about… by whining, and being an asshole. Did it ever occur to you that despite the wisdom you seem to think you have about who women should want to date, maybe these women have individual reasons you know nothing about for not wanting to date you? Jesus, you try to say it’s not a patriarchy thing, then immediately turn it into one. So those dumb bitches slept with assholes who didn’t call them, and now you’re mad that you can’t just make them SEE the error of their ways? I see a lot of reasons not to date you. It’s a shame you can’t self-identify those.

      • nep

        kudos!!!

      • Emma

        “Wow, it’s hilarious that you self-identify as the kind of whiny asshole this article is talking about… by whining, and being an asshole.”

        Seriously.

    • bo

      you know, men bitch and wine about there being no good women out there, they are all bitches, when im sitting right there, being their best friend everything they are looking for, and not being noticed, im “one of the guys.” and i dont cry and wine about it, i just accept that they havent figured out how to find what they are looking for and that hopefully one day they will find a good woman, even if it hurts cause ive liked them for so long. But I enjoy the friendship we have and love hanging out, so why complain?

      • dave

        Bo –I hope that I understand you, but you say that men, stuck in the “friendzone” , are supposed to accept it, happily, hoping that the woman they want, who is just their friend.will find another guy?
        That is a friendship the man is supposed to enjoy?

        • StansCoffins

          If he can’t enjoy anything about the friendship, or be happy when his friend finds another guy, then he shouldn’t be in it. It’s beyond creepy to claim that they should carry on pretending to be the girl’s friend in the vain attempt that she will eventually change her mind about not wanting to fuck him.

      • windskisong

        Sounds like you are the female equivalent. I know it goes both ways. Nojuan explained the situation well. Hang in there.

    • james

      Spot on man. Spot on.

    • nep

      Your completely missing/arguing against the point of this article. You are generalizing women and that makes you look like an idiot.

    • Guest

      Someone’s bitter.

    • Coment ™

      Oh boy! she kicked you hard hun?
      OUCH

  • Anonymous Nice Guy
  • ScottLastNameRedacted

    There’s another huge problem here: Since we can reasonably assume that the “Nice Guy” selects the people to whom he is so “nice” based upon an attractiveness characteristic disguised as kindness, and simultaneously expect women to be completely open about their criteria for selection (and the NG also expects women to completely ignore attractiveness), we see that classic emblem of misogyny at work: the double standard. There’s actually two here: first, that it’s permissible for men to be dishonest about their selection criteria, while women are expected to uphold a burden of honesty not placed on men, and, further, that men can judge based upon attractiveness, but women must complacently accept male kindness as tokens in exchange for sex.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais

      its not so much as a double standard as an erection meter. if she cant get you hard how can it go anywhere????????? women do not have this problem

      • Tristan Enseleit

        Actually, women do have that problem too: if you can’t get her wet. Duh.

    • brookstyle

      Double standards are difficult due to biology and evolution. Males and females are programmed to use different mating strategies even If they dont understand the mechanisms behind them.

    • Dominic Blais

      yes he does because he has too. no one wants a 300 pound heffer getting the wrong idea

  • woppedydo

    I have a male friend that I am not attracted to for multiple reasons, and I’m just going to be extremely blunt because as people said in this article apparently men want women to be extremely “open” about their requirements. Well, basically, I am not attracted to him at all. He is short, chubby, and kind of weaselish looking with odd facial hair. Now, before calling me out for being a superficial B&* or something of the sort, I fully recognize that I am also average, and i have dated chubby men, and short men, and men with facial hair, but in his case there is physically nothing i really find attractive about him. period.

    Now, he is pretty funny {good sense of humor} and smart, though not a very good conversationalist a lot of the time {when hes not making jokes he tends to ask a lot of pushy, personal questions}. This is an aspect of his personality i dont like. Additionally, he gets drunk extremely frequently to the point of being kind of annoying and borderline mean, and is a very very bad dancer (to the point where he one time threw a girl he was dancing with drunk on the floor).

    Anyway despite his good points (being nice most of the time [except when drunk], generous, sociable, and funny) it is pretty clear that there are so many things, both personality and physically that i dont like about him. He on the other hand, seems to like not only me but also all of my female friends.

    I do admit that I talk to him frequently about my dating/problems, but he also does the same about his dating/problems, so i dont think of myself as BURDENING him with my problems. I have dated “assholes” but I would not consider myself a victim by any means since I am pretty quick about identifying them and shutting them down.

    Despite the fact that most of the time he is on good behavior, sometimes this guy slips into whiny rants about the fact that I dont want to dance with him at parties (because im not interested and because hes a terrible dancer, to the point of being dangerous) – and how i dont realize what a “nice guy” he is. After a while of being friends with him, I come to find out that HE rejects women FREQUENTLY for reasons as, or more superficial than mine (basically, he doesnt like the short fatties, even though he is a short fatty himself). He has frequently rejected women on behalf of things like their weight, hair type, height, etc.; especially so with women that I actually find objectively better looking than him; not to mention less mean drunks.

    After one drunk episode where he forced me to dance with him and through a little drunk tantrum because i didnt want to – I told him point blank that he ever whined and ranted to me AGAIN, EVER about not wanting to do something I dont want to do, he was going to get a slap in the face. Noone guilts me into dancing with a touchy drunk under the guise of being a “nice guy”, what a bastard. If he doesnt like my terms than he can go elsewhere for friendship.

    My overall conclusion with this experience is that if you are not attracted to someone you really don’t owe them jack. They’re probably rejecting female “fatties” left and right, simultaneously trying to guilt YOU for not finding them attractive, and crying about how the ogre doesnt get the princess like in beauty and the beast.

    Now to be fair I do know “nice guys” that are even very attractive, and get rejected by dramatic repulsive women that do undoubtedly have some genetic attraction to assholes in spite of themselves. These women have psychological problems and frankly, the guys also might have psychological problems for playing into such drama; and that’s another subject entirely.

    I also know nice guys that are not so attractive but have either very attractive personalities or other attractive features; and they dont guilt women for not liking them; they simply either do their best and move on; or continue being friends with the knowledge that things might not pan out. This is a much healthier attitude and noone has any problem with this kind of guy either.

    • http://www.facebook.com/thorvington.finglethorpe Thorvington Finglethorpe

      Let me first say I appreciate you candor: Few women have the guts to admit they don’t like fat guys. Most women in your situation would have left that out because there was so much else you disliked about him. I applaud this honesty because it sounds like the problem isn’t his weight but the fact that he has a somewhat lousy personality.

      Let me be equally as blunt: Horse shit. You’re getting some kind of charge out this guy being attracted to you or you would’ve kicked him to the curb long ago. It is plainly obvious from your diatribe against this man that you find many of his actions to be repugnant, and his appearance to be unattractive, but you continue on in this unequal faux friendship. Which makes me wonder: What is it you get out of this?

      Maybe you don’t like HIM, but you clearly like the attention–the ego boost of always having a male around that can validate your desirability, appearance, or whatever it is he validates for you without you having to risk anything emotionally by being involved in a relationship with him. You get to have your cake, and you get to eat it too.

      Given that you KNOW you don’t want to be with him, and you KNOW he wants to be with you, how can you ethically continue in this farce of a friendship? His attraction and advances may be annoying, but you’re clearly enjoying something about them or he wouldn’t be around. If you honestly are as offended by this person as you seem to be, cut ties or you’re just using him to get whatever you’re getting. (Only you know what that is.)

      • http://www.facebook.com/bethanygsimpson Bethany Simpson

        She flat out said that he’s nice and funny most of the time. I have lots of friends – doesn’t mean I like every single thing about them and doesn’t mean I don’t sometimes find them irritating.

      • Ben

        Thorvington: you’re saying that because she likes some things about him and not others, she’s hereby ordered to break all ties with him? I understand neither your logic nor the justification of your authority.

        • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

          You’re leaving out the “This guy wants to see me naked and stuff” part of this deal. If she didn’t know this part, that’s one thing. She obviously knows he wants her, yet still pursues the friendship.

          • Dominic Blais

            she just want’s to use men and thinks she deserves to be treated like the virgin marry when she is the whore of Babylon

      • Spam

        So not true, and I’ll point out the telling part: “in me and all my female friends”.

        This guy acts like he’s interested in her sexually/romantically *sometimes*, and it’s not a coincidence that when he does it’s also when he’s showing the rest of his less sparkling personality traits. It’s likely he’s treating almost every woman in his life the same way.

        She’s no more using him as he is faking the friendship the rest of the time. A lot of people go through this, especially male, but also female (I did), and it comes from an ugly place full of resentment and fear.

    • womenareevil

      When a Guy tells a woman to be attracted to him she must do what he says and be attracted to him, he is the MAN and he knows what he is entitled to…

    • Dominic Blais

      but if he looked like johnny depp you would ignore every thing else even if he was a total tool who hated women and had zero good quality’s he would get sex

  • http://www.facebook.com/mike.callesen Mike Callesen

    Methinks the definition of a “Nice Guy” ought to be re-evaluated. A “Nice Guy” is the type of man who treats a woman as though she is more than just a body; she’s an individual with thoughts and feelings, whom he would like to get to know better. Or am I wrong?

    • Emma

      “Nice Guy” is the guy described in the article, a nice guy is the guy you described in your comment. Usually the quotations are the distinction, as far as I’ve seen.

      • Liam McGuigan

        I stumbled onto this, and it is quite the fascinating topic but I must say that most of the issues thhat with come from specifcally men reading this, is that this is not really talking about the genuine “nice guy”. The analysis of the so-called “nice guy”, the guy who feigns interest and cordiality etc. for the desperate opportunity to date or even sleep with the object of his attention is spot on. Those “so-called nice guys” are true assholes.

        That said, the true nice guys so to speak, are men who geuinely respect and seriously enjoy the company of the female object of their desire and want to continue to the next step. These are men who would never call the girl who rejected them whores, sluts etc. The problem here for these guys and the so-called asshole/nice guy dichotomy is about confidence.

        These “true nice guys” simply lack confidence. That lack of confidence allows them to be put into the proverbial friend zone, often through no consious fault of the woman. The problem therein lies with how these true nice guys see it. They see the girls they like, seeking the attention of men who are often strong willed and confident. Becuase these men lack this confidence they equate it with assholeishness. They know that these “assholes” are often simply placating women with this confidence. Now granted, many women see through these “assholes” just like they see through the nice guys found in the article, but enough do not, that these true nice guys think that women only like men who are assholes. The fault in my opinion lies pretty evenly. Genuine nice guys often mistake confidence with assholeish to their own detriment, and many women see confidence as a turn-on or flaterring when often this confidence is as artificial as the “so-called” nice guys.

        Ultimately, what women want, generally speaking, is genuinely nice guys with genuine confidence. They do exist.

        • Emma

          I don’t think it is all about confidence – there are lots of confident guys who get rejected a lot.

          I think true nice guys (as opposed to the “Nice Guys” written about) are guys who don’t approach friendship with an expectation or agenda, and if feelings do develop (as opposed to my experiences with “Nice Guys” in which they ALWAYS develop because they only befriend women who they want to date), the guy either acts on it and is content to be your friend even if you don’t want to date him, or (if he’s shy) doesn’t act on it but doesn’t silently resent you for not knowing he likes you.

          Confidence is important but beyond that I think most women just want the respect – we aren’t drawn to confidence like moths to a light, there also has to be respect and attraction and compatibility. “Nice Guys” may be confident but that confidence often turns into aggressive, whiny, bratty behaviour when the girl they like doesn’t like them back.

        • John

          You hit the nail on the head. Though I think jerkish guys have arrogance and not confidence. Though they disguise their arrogance as confidence. They walk around pretending to be a genuine nice guy with the thoughts in their head that they can have any women they want and if she never sleeps with them or gives them a chance then she’s a bitch or a whore. However nice guys have true confidence. Yeah they may be shy but do you really think a nice guy who’s maybe shy and isn’t used to getting rejected by women would ask her out if he didn’t expect a yes. This is true confidence, asking someone out you think you may have a chance with after getting to know them and seeing what their personality is like. Yes I think women just like men could be shallow but from a tad bit of experience I realized that once you get to know somebody really well when dating them you start to like them and fall for them whether they’re attractive or not.

  • Robert Newnham

    Every coin has 2 sides and i think your trying to hard on bad points of that coin maybe personal experiance? but there are some really nasty woman out there who play on guys emotions to get what they want then use the freind zone as a exscues as for me ive always been single all my life. When a girl turns me down i just accept shes my freind and move on oddly somtimes that girl’s start to yell at me saying i just wanted to sleep with them and as ive lost my thing for her because of this hole freindzone she useis that as a exscues so ladys and gents accept them as they are and dont just blame it on the freindzone. possitive note on me ill find someone some day all i have to do is wait out the storm of crap and morons :D

    • Robert Newnham

      im not also saying you have bad points i can see where your coming at and to be honist i hate thease kind of guys too but i would ask you also to find a nice guy freind because i have plenty and also ask there opional and view point rember collective infomation is the key to a accurate awnser. servays do the trick too :D

      • cabra

        How old are you?

    • John

      I would have to agree with you about women who play on truly nice guys emotions and uses truly nice guys to boost her ego or get what she wants. I’ve had girls do this quite a bit for their own entertainment. It is interesting when they complain about good guys. Like the truly good guy who’s mind and emotions you decided to play with wasn’t a decent guy who might have given you a chance. In a way these types of women do bring it upon themselves with any boyfriend they get. These women get used then tossed aside like trash. It is sad to see but it’s karma I guess. One day they’ll wake up and either give up on dating or wonder why they’ve been treated like crap by men their wole life and date good guys or they might go on to date jerks until a jerks does something to them that would make them regret dating jerks. Either way relationships aren’t worth wasting your time on as a good guy. Just carry on your life and try to better yourself and you’ll end up finding a girl who truly appreciates you and you will deserve her. If not then you know who others are who tried to give you a chance and in the end you truly are the lucky one for not dealing with the drama of relationships.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sara.pickin Sara Pickin

    I have a friend who is a genuine nice guy, but who did always end up being just good friends with lots of pretty girls. I think the reason that this happened was because he was so desperate to get a girlfriend that he always tried too hard, and women can smell it. He wasn’t relaxed. There was no playfulness in his approach, he was too self sacrificial, too eager; it made women nervous. He was always so busy being the perfect gentleman that he forgot to be himself. He has a girlfriend now, and they are really well suited and happy. When he met her, he was so comfortable with her that he dropped his act and they just clicked.

    The nice guy friendzone bullsh*t really gets to me, but I don’t want to demonize the men who peddle it too much, because they aren’t all terrible people (though I’ve known a couple of real creeps) – they are usually just guys who really want a girlfriend, and after a while they start to look at all their female friends / every girl they meet a bit funny, and start thinking “well we get on, and you’re attractive, so why not?”. I’ve had one or two male friends with whom this has happened and it’s always worn off once they’ve found the girl for them – and they realise that actually they didn’t want me in that way at all, I just happened to be there when they were looking. Guys imagine they really are in love with a female friend when actually they are just wondering why she isn’t in love with them. Because they REALLY want a girlfriend.

    The problem is that the ideas of what women are and what they want have been ridiculously oversimplified. Yes, there are some desirable traits that most girls will go for across the board. A caring guy who makes you laugh. Someone who is nice to you. Women are a bit attracted to bad boys in the short term, because they’re exciting. And going out with an asshole always teaches you some very precious lessons about what you should and shouldn’t put up with, so why not?

    However, no woman is attracted to a man who she senses is simply pretending to be what he thinks she wants. The most attractive trait a person can have is the ability to be themselves, to be at ease, to be natural. And if she still doesn’t think you are for her, then she’s not for you either. But – you can still be friends.

    • med_stu

      I don’t mean to put words in your mouth, but I don’t think your friend is the type of Nice Guy ™ that the author is talking about. She’s talking about the guys who go around shouting about what “nice guys” they are, and then calling women who aren’t interested in them “whore” and “bitch”. To me, if your friend doesn’t fit into that category then he’s probably just a shy person who, like you said, got a little too desperate about having a girlfriend which makes it harder. I was like that myself, except I’m a woman. It took me till I was 32 to relax enough to meet someone great. This is a little different than if your friend was someone who would keep being friends with you because he thought he was attracted to you, and then said disgusting things about you when you weren’t willing to go out with him. These guys are actually misogynistic assholes, who say things like ‘girls are “obligated” to shave their legs’, that ‘a “no” is just a “yes” that needs a little more convincing’.

      I’m not attacking what you said, I just think the mistake that a lot of people make is they mix up “people who are shy or have low self esteem” with “Nice Guy” ™. The difference is that people who are shy occurs is genderless. People of both genders struggle with shyness and social awkwardness, and this does make it harder to meet people, or to start a relationship. We should treat these people with enormous empathy (I was one of them, so I’m very definite about that!). However they are not the same people as the guys who behave like women only exist to provide them with something whilst declaring what nice guys and perfect gentlemen they are.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais

      finally an honest women says they are not all creeps.. but sometimes the man does really love her and she just uses that love to her own ends never rewarding him for being there for her. (if she is a virgin and not sleeping around a bunch.)she has the right to get mad at him but if she has a different guy every week or so, she is crying on his shoulder about the next ).or has been leading him on. she is being cruel not too. especially if she knows he loves her. ( she knows a taste would make him happier than anything she could say or do) its a one way relationship where someone is being used.

      it is not that men expect sex, men need sex. you would feed a starving person wouldn’t you?

    • Dominic Blais

      and every girl who friend zoned him was promoting rape culture

    • Alex Jones

      Thank you for this post. It really helped me:)

  • Mike

    Wow. You do not realize how degrading this was to read as a guy. Not all “Nice Guys” act nice just to have sex with a women. There are genuinely nice guys out there who do care about women and get friend-zoned. They do not call women who turn them down bitches or sluts but after they get friend-zoned more than once and it turns into a pattern, they get frustrated. Your implication that all Nice Guys call women bitches or sluts when they get turned down is totally false. Basically, you described an “Asshole” and called him the “Nice Guy.”

    • Angel

      She’s talking about guys who go around proclaiming themselves to be nice and then being manipulative, sex obsessed whiners. She’s not actually saying these guys are nice people, it’s just what they call themselves. It makes sense to women because most of us have known one of these guys (at least) who whines about how nice he is and at the same time stereotypes women as like assholes. Try not to take offense to it, it’s not supposed to represent genuinely nice men. Just the guys that label themselves as such and really aren’t.

      • randomgirl

        Yes, so true. There are nice guys, some who are single or taken. and then there are those guys where who act all nice and confidant and you from their actions you can tell that they are really just interested in you as a body. basically this is a sleaze bag trying to use cheap niceties as gimmicks to earn trust/leeway/power with someone male or female, just because he wants to get off in some way. nice people who are fake and have alterior motives basically is where the “nice guys” (not to be confused with actual nice guys or good people) fall into.

  • M

    Yea but I think the so called “friend zone” that women put their so called “nice guys” in those “nice guys” usually end up marrying them because women get really sick and tired of the D-Bags that yeah get her in the sack, eff her, doesn’t care about you, after he got you into your bed, effed you he then is gone quicker than an F-15 fighter jet, will never ever call her back oh yeah and on top of that he has 15 or 20 other girlfriends he’s effin on the same side.

    But to these women that spells “confidence”. What was so great about Mr. D-Bag that ONLY effed you, immediately left after he was done and probably left you crying and whining about where are all the “good” guys. Yeah they might be OK at starting the conversation at the bar to get you to go home with him but then the confidence completely stops once he gets you to your house. But on the other hand women have this black and white image (no pun intended) that the so called “good guy” is just that, just a “good guy”, how so wrong these women are. Most so called “good guys” have the bad boy side to them and most of them have a h*ll of a lot more confidence then those D-Bags that women go for. Do women seriously think the D-Bags that just effed you in your bed then immediately got up, before you could say anything he was out the effin door so does that spell confidence to you women??? That just spells Mr. SO UNCONFIDENT that has absolutely ZERO confidence cause Mr. D-Bags wouldn’t spend a second with you after he got you in the sac, let alone talk to you. All you are to Mr. D-Bags is basically a plastic, inflatable blowup doll and when he’s done with you Mr. D-Bags would rather stick a needle in you and deflate you like a blowup doll.

    • John

      You’re right with these D-Bags you talk about. They’re just arrogant thinking they can get any girl in the world to sleep with them. Then they do just that. If you google how to get a girlfriend or how to get a girl to like you most of the things that come up are on how to manipulate women and sleep with them as quick as possible. The thing with truly nice guys is that I’ve heard them time and time again be called push overs, but as soon as they stand up for themselves or start question why their female friends always want a good guy but always date these D-Bags that nice guy is known as an A-hole. Yes I’ll agree that women can be as shallow as men and vice versa but a question every person on this planet should ask themselves is if their attractive significant other lost their looks one day in some tragic accident would they still love them. Most the time good guys aren’t looking for sex but a fair chance at a relationship and most the time they never get a decent chance. Truly good guys unlike these d-bags have a sense of attraction but they don’t always care about looks.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705675577 Kevin Kennedy

        On one night stands and ‘D-bags’…Men are just vibrators with legs.

  • kaleys

    Friendzone is real. It’s not nearly as common as Internet made us believe, but it’s real.

  • Pingback: Review: Glitch by Heather Anastasiu | reutreads

  • BobBobby

    I like how the author is attacking guys who probably already have
    pretty low self-esteem (way to kick them when they’re down). Also, it
    assumes that every guy who is in the friend zone is somehow mad at her
    for not wanting to be with them. There are plenty of girls who put guys
    in friend zones for understandable reasons but that doesn’t mean the guy
    has no right to lament his situation or to think that she just doesn’t
    know he’d be good for her (wrong as he may be).

    All the friend zone is is someone who is friends with someone else but wants to
    be more than friends. I fail to see how that is misogynistic in itself. In fact, one person doesn’t even have to have romantic feelings for the other. Everyone is in the friend zone with their friends it’s just they usually both want to keep it there.

    • John

      I know what you mean but to be honest I think she’s talking about the so called “nice guys” who hate and insult women who reject them. She’s not talking abot truly nice guys though I’m not sure how many people here get that, though I know some do and some don’t. What those who don’t get it need to understand is that a nice guy will be frinds with a girl and only expects the same respect back. Not much to ask for from any relationship. Also truly good guys get to know women before asking them out. In cases they do tend to be less shallow when it comes to looks. For those looking for “confidence” they should probably look why these truly nice guys have no “confidence”.

      • chris

        At the end of the day, this article is unhelpful and it is disgusting that it exists. People are impressionable and they look for the similarities in situations rather than the differences because it’s easier, it’s a heuristic, a mental shortcut.

        A 20something girl will look at this, and whenever their friends asks them out, that friend will be seen as some person who has been fake all along; has a feeling of entitlement; and is not worthy of even a friendship anymore. Do you understand that things like depression and sadness are very serious and suicide rates are on the rise. It’s because of generic articles like this wording situations as if they are all the same.

        • John

          Yeah I agree with you there. I’ve went through depression before but for different reasons than arcticles like this. I also agree and most feminists I’ve noticed tend not to see the difference between a genuine nice guy friend and these guys pretending to be nice. I know guys who have been attracted to women and befriended them, to genuinely be a good friend. Then later ask them out and get rejected. They never hated them or called them any names and they were true friends and went back to that after the rejection while moving on. I was correcting BobBobby but when I said “people who don’t understand this”, I was mainly thinking of feminists and women who don’t understand it. Yes articles like this are disgusting especially in a sense that they take a minor problem and make it seem larger than it actually is.

        • Nik Weinstein

          THIS!!!! Females, in part due to articles like this, are increasingly feeling validated in their anti-male assumptions.

        • Kim Tullar

          Chris, I didn’t make it through the entire article/blog as the writing was too distracting to take anything away except new terms like “sex people” … we can now date or sex people who knew … moving on I have had men whom became my friends and then they decided to make that move. In those situations I have told them even though I cared for them as a friend, I wasn’t interested in more. Usually depending on the maturity level of the man I was then a bitch, a whore or a slut because … well that’s a good question but mostly because they felt rejected. I have felt rejected plenty of times and truthfully when it happens we have to decide: do we internalize it and say “I am not good enough, I am not worthy”? Or do we say “he/she is such a loser they would have been lucky to be with someone like me” or the greatest internal response is they don’t want me because “they just want to be with people that will treat them badly”, yea generally that is never the case, however never for a moment in the midst of our self-centerness do we consider that were actually inciting hateful assumptions about them due to our own internalization of rejection. Okay so then what? what do we do with the rejection? I don’t know here’s a marvel idea…MOVE ON! Hey wait, but if that person moves on then he won’t dote on me anymore and “if he really loved me like he said he did when i rejected him to his core he would have still stood by me and lived vicariously through other men who I gave myself to, that bastard is so fake!” And when he is emotionally healthy and says “because of the way I feel about you I can’t be just your friend”, he has proven just how fake he is and didn’t really love me to start with. What these women are really seeking is agape love and humans rarely have the capacity to actually love that way, or maybe a straight friend that is a girl except if you start shopping with other women and leave her out guess what she isn’t going to accuse you of only wanting “assholes” but she will probably tell you to go fuck yourself and find friends who put her first in her life like she did you. All women have been there, they should understand but when it comes to men they need to recognize that if he is paying that much attention to you and he goes shopping with you, listens to you recite every conversation you have ever had and read word for word the entire cosmo magazine for the month of January, he probably isn’t “just your friend” unless he is gay! People are naturally self centered and want to be loved by those they find themselves attracted to. If they cannot receive those things they will either become stalkers or they will move on. Women shouldn’t be hating on these men for making a decision not to stalk them but instead encourage them to be emotionally healthy and move on. I don’t know about you but it bothers me much more when I read about how some guy stalked a woman, raped her and then killed her…then when some guy says “I love you too much to watch you love other men the way I want you to love me”. I think women should work together and promote healthy relationships for their friends regardless of their gender and stop worry about how “just because I wanted to be loved doesn’t mean that the person who only serves a purpose of loving me deserves it too” All and all the article if you call it that was ridiculous, but then again so is the notion of feminism, historically hidden, the Feminist movement in America was started by a woman with a mental illness and most of her predecessors were as well. Equality for all people isn’t a feminist ideology, however making men servants for a woman’s use is.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bethanygsimpson Bethany Simpson

      and the ‘friend zone’ implies that it’s some sort of punishment, and that it isn’t a true friendship. if a person is that into someone that only being friends with them hurts, but they’ve has made it clear there will never being anything, then it would behoove the ‘friendzoned’ party to remove themselves from the situation and get a little distance.

      friendship isn’t a ‘zone’ – it’s a relationship in and of its own right. that’s why the ‘friendzone’ isn’t a real thing – it’s a self imposed box, and it presumes that real friendship can’t exist between the two parties.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705675577 Kevin Kennedy

        FriendZone-putting a person at arm’s length and allowing others to get closer to you. It’s a zone. “We can be friends” is the absolute worst thing that can be said to someone who likes you for more than that. It isn’t all about sex.

      • http://www.cyber-punk.cz.cc/ ShadowRunner

        its getting the crumbs when you wanted cake. its settling guys dont settle just move on..

    • Nik Weinstein

      Best comment here. This article is purely shameful, not informative or entertaining.

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  • ned

    I feel like this comment probably won’t get any attention on a website like this but I hope someone sees this.

    Nice Guy Syndrome exists but I think the author’s reaching a little bit to connect it to the Friendzone the way she did and demonize guys who get put into the friendzone as a result. I’ll give my own personal example of how I believe the friendzone usually goes.

    In high school, I had a huge crush on this girl in my
    classes. I thought she was absolutely gorgeous and a nice girl and
    thought my life would be great if I could date her. Unfortunately, I
    didn’t have nearly enough self-confidence at the time to flat out say it so I just went on secretly having a crush on her. Eventually however I started talking to her and
    found that aside from all that stuff I mentioned previously, she
    was a genuinely cool, smart girl who I really clicked with. Hour long conversations felt like minutes and we were always there for each other. So on top of the physical attraction I
    had for her, I was coming to realize that I also really liked her as a
    friend. In hindsight I probably could have just dated her back then by being more assertive and letting my feelings be known but considering where I was as far as my self-esteem, it didn’t seem like a viable option. So at the time, I felt stuck because I genuinely
    valued her friendship and didn’t want to risk ending it by telling her
    my feelings but I also wanted more from the relationship at the same
    time.

    In my experience, this is the friendzone. Someone having romantic feelings for their friend who doesn’t reciprocate. I don’t think it’s only guys who want to have sex faking a friendship in hopes that one that she’ll slip and fall on his dick. There’s really no one to blame in a real friendzone situation because it’s shitty for all involved. Seeing articles like this annoy me because they completely misrepresent the feelings of guys who are actually in the friendzone and try to minimize it by acting like the guy is only after sex. Honestly I think it’s just a coping mechanism for people to not feel bad about friendzoning someone.

    • med_stu

      The problem is that all your wording in this comment implies that this girl you liked “put you” in the “friendzone”. Like it’s a conscious decision she made to DO something to you. Using the term friendzone, and talking about guys getting “put in the friendzone” directly implies an ACTION on the part of the girl.

      What really happened is that you had a crush on a girl, became friends with her, and nothing ever happened about your feelings. You imply that this type of discussion is a way to “not feel bad about friendzoning someone”, but what is it she was supposed to do? You NEVER told her you had feelings for her. Maybe she wasn’t interested but didn’t know about your feelings and just thought you were friends? Maybe she had feelings for you but was too scared to say in case you didn’t feel the same and it ruined your friendship? Maybe she wasn’t interested and suspected you had feelings for her but YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING. So what was she supposed to do? Tell you she didn’t have feelings for you, even though you never asked?

      Your argument presupposes that all the power is on the girls side. That she MUST have known you had feelings for her, and DECIDED to “put you in the friendzone” for some bizarre reason other than ‘she just wasn’t interested in you and had never thought about it. If you guys are friends, she is not obligated to consider whether you may have feelings for her or not. She can just assume you are friends, unless you specifically tell her you want something else. Women do not exist to monitor whether you’re interested in them or not. I’m telling you, if guys befriend me, I assume they want to be friends until if or when they tell me they want to date. Because I have other things to think about than whether I’m UNINTENTIONALLY and INNOCENTLY FORCING SOMEONE TO BE FRIENDS WITH ME WHO ACTUALLY WANTS TO DATE ME.

      This is my argument with the friendzone. So you get feelings for someone, make friends with her, never tell her that you have any other intention than that, and when she happily goes on being friends with you somehow she’s done something wrong? Not only that, she’s somehow intentionally done it. Plus, its such a terrible thing to do because it’s such a punishment to be friends with someone.

      I had a couple of guy friends when I was a teenager who I had crushes on. I was too shy to say anything, so I just resigned myself to being friends with them, and tried not to mind too much when they went out with other girls. Especially if the other girls were people I had a low opinion of. The difference is I NEVER for a second blamed either of those guys for the fact that I WAS TOO SCARED to tell them that I liked them.

    • Alexis

      You’re right on the money with this one man. I agree. Let’s say they are right and the nice guy just wants sex and nothing else, why not give it to a guy who had the courtesy to be nice and respectable and doesn’t cheat compared to an asshole prone to making them cry. Why not screw the whining dork then? At least he won’t run off after depositing his seed and would think the world of his friend lol.

  • http://www.dianadesim.tumblr.com/ Diana

    I really liked this post. I’ve always hated the friend zone, and this really spoke out to me.

  • christian arthur

    Hate some of what this says -_- but guessa 15 yr old canhave this :/ ha!

  • empathy

    This is such a strange critique. The ‘Nice Guy’ response to rejection has a perfect mirror in the ‘Nice Girl’ response i.e. ‘Guys only want to date skinny brainless girls who flirt outrageously. Guys are too intimidated by how smart I am to want to date me’ etc etc. Really what the Nice Guy response is is a defense mechanism for rejection – and when people are hurt they can say mean things. Nice Guys and Nice Girls can say mean and stupid things, but they deserve a little pity rather than this abuse.

    • John

      Truly nice guys and girls do have a set back in the dating world but if they’re smart enough they’re the ones that end up happier in the end and they’re not used by jerks as sex objects. Though there are truly nice guys and girls out there, and they’re truly great people. They may seem quieter or less popular but they do exist. Just most men and women don’t know where to look and even when a nice guy or girl finds them even if they are less attractive, most people will never notice. They’re just seen as a good friend and I’m starting to think more it is because of the shallowness of both men and women. Even here I heard somewhere that women date men they’re attracted to somewhat physically (in general) and do I een need to explain men. Though I do know people both male and female including myself that don’t care about looks. Though in the end a good life lesson to learn and a great experience to have comes with falling in love with a person you’re not physically attracted to. I’ve had it happen by giving genuinely nice girls a chance. Even though we didn’t work out in the end we did have a very good and long run while it lasted. I don’t regret it and I don’t feel like I was used at all. Just something to think about. Though like another said I’m not sure how much attention I’ll get on this site though I have to try and get a decent opinion out whether or not it deserves negative attention.

      • Walker

        Smart enough is a misnomer. A person cannot think themselves into or out of what they want. These things are all animalistic. That is why when a nice guy asks a girl why she is obsessed with some douchebag she smiles and says she doesn’t know. It’s because it is a response. She did not calculate the attraction. It’s JUST THERE.
        Guys have the equivalent. If we COULD be attracted to a good thing… for christ sake wouldn’t we all choose it?

        • Bryce

          This is a fair point, attraction is never a choice. And it’s not always ‘love at first sight’. As someone mentioned earlier, it’s not always an ulterior motive on the guy’s/girl’s/either behalf. The problem is not being open to talk it with this person directly in the first place.

          That’s why whenever I choose to be a true platonic friend with a girl, I tell her that I reserve the right to exit the friendship if I develop feelings for her. And I can tell you there are some upsides to a friendship with a girl and no it’s got nothing to do with benefits.

    • Dominic Blais

      i love smart skinny women yes i hate unhealthy fat whales. i know women think men are being shallow for not wanting an unhealthy obese woman, who is not gonna get winded in bed, or walking to the kitchen. i find what women say men view as fat and what women think men view as fat are 2 different things women think men reject the slightly overweight ones that’s not obese fat or unhealthy as the god dam land whales. but they think it’s okay to reject men over a chipped tooth from a skate boarding accident

      • thisone

        ANYONE can reject ANYONE for ANY reason. You don’t want to date obese women, that’s fine. But that also means a girl has the right to turn down a guy because he doesn’t have perfect teeth. Some people have deal breakers, no matter how small or shallow they may seem.

      • Anonymous

        My husband had a chipped tooth when we first met and I thought it was kinda hot because he was such a good looking guy in general. Women do need to feel physically attracted. We are not attracted to guys simply bc they are nice. People need to stop calling others shallow just because we get attracted to good looking people. It’s our nature!!! On the other hand if a woman dates a guy bc he has money she is the one who is a shallow bitch!

        • John

          I agree with you. Also people have to stop thinking that just because a guy or girl for that matter hasn’t dated much that their is something wrong with them. I think this feeds in to the whole nice guy thing. There are plenty of great people with a lack of experience in dating.

          Second thing I hate the nice guy arguement because a decent guy who happens to be a friend can’t ask his female friend out without being labeled as a “Nice Guy TM”. Also that a guy who is just a friend and has no interest in his female friend can’t question why she dates or stays with a person who’s obviously a jerk and/or abusive without being labeled a “Nice Guy TM”. It gets quite rediculous at times.

          Third and final thing here is that a guy can’t be shy and is instead secretive and manipulative to get a girlfriend (not sex which seems to be a hard concept for a lot of feminists to understand. Note I said a lot and note all).

          Most of these guys don’t feel entitled to get sex or a relationship from a woman. They also don’t feel like women are vending machines where you put in nice coins and relationships and sex pop out. Most guys are looking for a relationship and wondering what they’re doing wrong. When they ask a question like “Why do some women date jerks over a nice guy?” they’re truly wondering. They also ask that question due to their experience.

        • John

          I’d also like to add that even that there are guys who fit the “Nice Guy TM” discription, from what I’ve seen most the guys labelled as nice guys are genuinely decent guys who are interesting and just happen to have bad luck with finding (a) girlfriend(s). The whole “women don’t care too much about looks” stereotype doesn’t help much and is probably just as damaging as the so calls nice guys.

        • http://AlonTheWolfess.Tumblr.com/ Alon

          That’s called an “appeal to nature” fallacy.
          Humans do many things that aren’t natural. For example, humans are meant to be polygamous. But if you tried that, due to our monogamous society, your significant other would be devastated.
          Or consider the fact that it’s “natural” to fear the unknown. That causes things like racism, sexism, xenophobia… but that’s only “natural”, right?

          So yeah, doing what’s natural isn’t always a good thing.
          And you are a shallow person. Stop making excuses.
          It’s good to be attracted physically, but you shouldn’t choose a person solely based on that. I see people for who they are, not what they look like.

  • Michelle

    This author, is just as bad as the men she describes. Shes demonizing men by making broad generalizations about men without any solid basis to back it up.

    “One big thing I hate about Nice Guys is their implication that women who don’t want to date them, for whatever reason, are bitches, sluts, ugly” Is one such generalization. You assume all men are like this? Definitely feminist.

    • Sarah

      Whoa, whoa, whoa. Nowhere did she generalize all men. She is talking about a very specific type of person who exhibits certain behaviors, which she describes in her article. And you seem to have a very uneducated view about what it is to be feminist. I can understand that, since we tend to be defined by the fringe that actually is pretty crazy, but a real feminist is someone who earnestly believes in eradicating hypocrisy on BOTH sides of gender relations. This is something that may be easily confused because of the name of our group, which originated when feminists were focused solely on women’s issues. But, as all groups, we have evolved since then. If it were even a few months ago I probably would have been saying the same thing, but I’ve done some research since then. I encourage everyone who hasn’t to look into modern feminism.

  • lnsf

    Maybe it’s because when women try to soften the blow they say something like, “You’re a nice guy. I’d just like to be friends.” All of the pieces are right there. The fellow is being rejected for being nice, and being put into the undesired place, the friend zone. I’ve said this myself in part because I assessed that he couldn’t handle the truth, and I wasn’t up for any more conflict and bad feeling than necessary. Also, maybe I felt sorry for him and wanted to offer friendship, in case he needed it (If he throws my friendship into my face by calling it the “friend zone” he releases me from the burden of feeling bad for him). Could saying “You’re a nice guy. I’d just like to be friends” when it’s not entirely true to avoid bad feelings be where the confusion is coming from?

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  • lloyddobbler

    As someone who has spent time both in and out of the friendzone, I’ll say this. First, most guys who lament the friend zone are not the despicable, misogynistic human beings described the writer. Secondly, and this is important… if you’re friends with a guy, please do not continuously run to cry on his shoulder about the problems you are having with the other guys you are with on a romantic level, especially the ones who are obviously assholes (or worse). Many women tend to keep going back to guys that literally treat them like dirt, and then during the 80% of they are being treated like dirt by said guy, they come looking for the friend zone guy to tell him all about it and get advice. Then of course 2 days later, the asshole guy is the best guy in the world again, so the 2 hours spent talking with her seemingly amounts to wasted time. Then of 2 weeks later the situation inevitably repeats itself (and so on and so on…..) until they break up, and the next guy is an asshole too and guess who she runs to…..

    • Sinci

      Maybe you are just listening to the women’s complaints instead of trying to see the other side of the picture. If I had a dime for all of the times a guy has said my boyfriend is an asshole, I would be able to pay all of my college tuition.

      In a relationship argument, people are going to present biased stories to you. Women look to other people to be their friends and give them unselfish advice. The “solution” to break up with a guy just to date you is selfish. You will run into your own problems if you and her actually begin to date, and she will turn to someone with a different perspective for advice to her biased story. Then that friend, if he happens to be a straight male, might call you an asshole and suggest that she date him instead of you.

      Wouldn’t you feel it was unfair for someone to try to steal your relationship based on problems he doesn’t understand about your relationship? All couples argue.

      • Alexis

        Hey genius, it’s called liking a female who doesn’t see you that way, but you’d rather her not be hurt whether she chooses you or someone better than who she has. Most cases the relationship issues guys hear are bad from the start, like universally bad. Cheating, emotional abuse and sometimes domestic violence isn’t something a so called friend should ignore. If you have the logic that’s the opposite of my point then it’s safe to assume you are one of those girls.

  • Melissa Williams

    I have had thousands of encounters with single women, looking or not looking, and I have one word for these encounters – rejection. Why? They don’t know my name, they don’t know my work history, they don’t know where I live, they don’t know how much money I have, they don’t even know anything about me. So, why did they reject me?

    Because I am a ‘sweet guy.’

    They saw it, read it and rejected it.

    End of story.

    Women are wired to desire an alpha male. Biologically he can provide food, shelter, protection and safety, and in the modern age – money.

    When I encounter a woman who is ‘looking,’ and she sees me, recognizes that I am not an alpha male and decides, ‘Oh my Gosh, that person is not an alpha male.. Oh I want that person! I don’t like the guys I typically encounter, I want to talk to that person!’ Even if she is conscious of this decision, she will then communicate her desire to talk to me (if I haven’t read it already, which in all cases I have), then turn it all around to me and put the pressure and expectation on me – to be the very thing she knows I am not! Which is an alpha male. It is in her wiring. I have had very literal and clear encounters with different women whom I have read, analyzed and understood very carefully, and this is what happens – every time. On some level they want me, but on a more instinctual level they have no desire whatsoever to speak with me and, in fact, are looking for an alpha male.

    They may not be conscious of it, but, let’s look at the evidence -

    I have lived in my city for over 14 years. I have had a ten month relationship, and approximately five years later, I went on a date. I ‘looked’ for a period of four years between 2004 in April and 2008 in May. The area I live in was teeming with people, and during these four years I was in hundreds if not over a thousand different encounters with women, aged 24ish to 48ish, I made friends, developed interests, socialized, had amazing times, met a variety of new people, and most people liked me.

    I had one date.

    During the time I have lived here I have had four semi-long term meaningful friendships, two with gay men and two with women. I know who I am and I generally know what is going on.

    When you ask me if it is unbearable to be ‘friends’ with a person, normally I would say no. But if no one, literally No One -Zero- people date you, hook up with you, make love to you, developing lasting relationships with you, or even give a damn about you, then I would say yes it is unbearable to be ‘friends’ with someone who is a love interest. If people dated me, then I would not be bothered if other people said they just wanted to be friends. Being ‘friends’ with someone, in the context of someone who is or was a romantic interest is, quite simply put – a waste of time. So I don’t get put in the friendzone (which is a new word I have never used, by the way) because I am not stupid, and they can tell I won’t buy their bull.

    If there are Actual Reasons why you will not date me, what are those ‘Reasons?’ You don’t know anything about me, you have never met me, so how could you have any reasons to reject me? But there it is – rejection. You rejected me before you even knew me, why? Because I am a ‘sweet guy.’

    I have seen it literally over a thousand different times. Don’t tell me what I am or what I am not, because I know what I am and I know what I’m not, and if I don’t, I’ll figure it out.

    When you call ‘nice guys’ ‘not nice,’ and at the same time you call everyone else ‘people who don’t suck,’ then it is -you- who is not nice.

  • Anonymously & Insanely Yours

    I truly believe in this day and age, we “people” in general, are just purely insecure for just about every little damn thing in life (myself included) to the very point where its just “Trivial”, “common culture”, its inbred-ed in us since childhood, you see it in pop MTV culture, you see it in the movies, you see it everywhere you go no matter what part or walk of life you travel on.

    On top of all this madness, I also believe we “people” are becoming more and more anti-social than being socially connected on a global scale if you will to social networking $hits like Facebook or Myspace or Google+.

    Big point here is that Everyone, (and yes I mean YOU and MYself included) are ALL out for their own selfish, personal self-interest. Thus, it being a cruel prejudice, and materialistic world as it is, and as we live in it, we people will hold anyone/anything to the highest of our own personal shallow standards and discard anything that we see as inferior or unattractive.

    Everyone has 2 faces when it comes to interacting with other people

    A public mask and private mask:

    Take a moment to differentiate those two things…. its not hard, really… but really think about it.

    People with their public mask will say what “they feel” is “right for themselves” to other people that only serves one purpose, which is to preserve their public face value/ image or what not.

    However once people have shed their public mask off and replace with their darker, true blue colors, Private mask, be it on zhe internet or behind the wheel of their gas guzzling, ozone polluting, planet-killing piece of garbage, internet fiends like myself to exert what “they” really think of you. And trust me it is truly ugly…

    *sighs*

    There I feel slightly better…. after letting out my angry anti-social demon out of the box.

    Honestly I take great offense to this “entry” of the Nice Syndrome.

    First reaction to it is I find it hypocritically ironic…. enough said.

    But I do understand where you are coming from. (and I mean no BS cliche on saying that, because I have to live with that harsh reality of being Nice Guy)

    It would probably not occur to you, but I have a very good valid reason why
    “some” not all but “some” nice guys put on the mask of being the “Nice Guy”

    I used to be a punk, no exaggeration, I was a self-serving asshole kid growing up in the suburbs who felt the world revolve around me.

    Being 25 now, I still suffer from the ramifications of my messed up passed, with tons of lost and broken life long friendships. I don’t recall now of having any real true relationships anymore, because of the way I am. I can’t even put to you how lonely it feels to know what its like to be a true asshole, it sucks… and sadly I accepted it and must live and adapt to it.

    Okay by now most of what I just typed may look like I got serious issues, and practically jumping all over the place, which one of many reasons why I absolutely despise reading soul searching stuff like this. Its infectious and contagious,

    But anyway, pure and simple I think most people are just shallow as hell, and heavily insecure too (I know that all too well myself), and you know what? it is I what I call Ceteris Paribus, sorry but its just the way it is. Is there any way of changing that reality? HELL NO!! I blame the media and culture for propagating this sick reality that we live, its their fault… okay good night.

  • Bill

    I was often placed in the friend zone as a young man and often desribed as “too nice”. One day after traveling the world I realized, only in America is being “too nice” considered a bad thing. In Asian it is actually value. I concluded that gender relations are extremely dysfunctional in this country wherein women mistake loudness with confidence. Make no mistake, I was athletic as hell, 6 feet tall, muscular and an avid track runner and sports player though was simply shy and sweet. Incredibly, I found that I got along best with Asian women who actually value nice people. I suggest all nice American guys should simply date Asian women to know their true value. It is a fresh of breath air. Now in my 30s and with a Ph.D. in a hard science and now faculty member at Harvard with half a million in the bank, I’m happily married to an Asian woman. We now have a lovely little baby! A curious thing has started to happen in my 30s. I notice that nice men start becoming more desirable with age to older women and the young women who were once the center of attention but have now aged have a dramatically reduced desirability. It’s almost as if the dating “value” of each gender completely reverses as you age. The nice guys now in their 30s can easily date women in their 20s while the women who are in their 30s are having a harder time dating anyone. Life works in mysterious ways and the older I get the better I understand the world. My advice to younger guys is simply look outside the US if you can as divorce rates are actually lower when marrying foreign women than marrying American. Just my take.

    • zdrav

      Nah dude, you were just able to leverage your white privilege way more in Asia than in America. It has nothing to do with ” good Asian values”.

      • Womanhahahahaha

        Yes it does, Asians are good people Americans are Scandalous

  • http://profiles.google.com/amvicejr Aldo Vice

    The reason i dont like the friend zone is because women only do that out of pity if you are only being cool with me outta sympathy because i like you yet you dont want anything more than friendship thats not true friendship an its just as wrong as a guy only wanting to be friends for sex which by the way thats not true about all nice guys nobody wants your pity just for you to simply help them with their needs an yes…. i am saying sex is a need the nice guy helps you with whatever

  • Reality

    The “bad boy/Aholes” act just as “entitled” to a womens body as a nice guy does and they get laid all the time….So somehow this sense of “entitlement” over a womens body/sex is completely unacceptable when it’s a nice guy doing it but it’s okay when a cocky dickhead does it???

    The “entitlement” part is a bullshit red herring….Women don’t avoid nice guys because they hate their sense of “entitlement”! If that was the case than they would avoid the Aholes to as they act even more entitled to sex with a women….So stop with the bogus red herring….Women like Aholes because they are dominant over them (women love to be dominated) and act aggressively…Period end of story.

  • Yondy

    As much as I want to agree with you, I am afraid that for some people the friend zone does exist. It is out there, just not as often as people make it seem. I guess it’s story time…

    Many months ago I met this girl (let’s call her Liza) and I thought she was perfect in every way. She and I talked a lot and we shared many of the same interests. I tried not to rush into anything, so I kept my intentions a secret. We became very good friends. All that time I was totally star struck over her. I took her to the movies several times, I took her out to dinner, I took her out for ice cream, all that good stuff. She even went as far enough to invite me to celebrate her birthday with her family. I had gotten her a $40 necklace as a way to tell her that I was interested. At that point I didn’t know whether or not she was. After that I saw her wearing it almost all the time. Then one Friday night we went to see the Taken sequel (at her request) and after I took her to get ice cream. It had been a couple months at that point and I finally told her that I loved her. She was taken aback and asked if we could speak 
    outside. Nothing in the world could have prepared me for that. She told me “Yondy, (not my real name) my last relationship didn’t end very well, and because of that I never talk to my ex anymore. I really don’t want that to happen to us, because I value our friendship too much.” I agreed with her of course. However, driving her home while fighting the tears back was one of the hardest things to do in my life. I was at a loss for words, I understood what she meant, but I “hated” her for making me feel like this. I hated myself for not making my intentions clear. I still respected her, and that didn’t make me love her any less. Was it my fault for saying i loved her? Was it her fault for not taking the hint? I have eventually decided that all of that was my fault. i never should have told her how i felt. I know some people might be thinking that i only wanted her for sex, but i know for a fact it wasn’t true. Whenever i looked at her, i realized that i could die a virgin as long as it was me who was buried beside her for the rest of eternity. I understand her wanting to be friends, and i am okay with that. I never complained or said anything negative about it. Now whenever i see her i am still filled with these emotions, but i feel guilty for still feeling this way. The worst part is, after that night I never saw her wear that necklace I got for her again.

    Story over. I understand that this is probably the same story every man tells. But I firmly believe in unrequited love. The friend zone exists, just not too the extent people want you to believe. The friend zone is a temporary emotion where you are filled with love, anger, confusion, hatred, and sadness. People usually go through this after realizing that their love is unrequited. It disappears after a few days. But even though I still find myself longing for her love every day. Think what you want about me, call me a misogynist. I probably am for all I know. I just wanted to get my story out there, and hopefully someone could give me advice.

  • Chris

    I was a nice guy never got any were turn into a ahole now everyone whats me Here’s how it works people!!

    1 nice person meets a ass doesn’t matter witch one is nice girl or boy they date or worst tie the knot, After a couple of year the nice one starts to turn into a ass, next thing poof they be come a ass. Now that they are both ass’s they can’t get along so the split and go on to convert more nice people into ass, this will happen until the world is covered in ass’s and God give it a enema !! The end.

    • Coach Irf

      Exactly!

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  • http://www.facebook.com/crazymexican1545 Jaime Ibarra

    so what if i am a nice guy. i respect my best friend both of them. i don’t want to sleep with ether of them but one has put me in the friend zone. yet i still talk to her about my life i listen to her guy problems and give her advice about how to deal with a guy, just like i do to about 10-15 other girls who have also friendzoned me and then came to me for help. does that make me a d bag because i want to help them and i am a nice person, and i have wanted to date them to make them happy but they said no. and i say i am in the friend zone because they didn’t say no. they said you are to good of a friend. thats were the friend zone came from. no is one thing you are too good of a friend and i don’t want to change that. thats another thing. if you think im not man enogh to just accept no then how am i the d bag, doesn’t that make you a bitch for not saying no and keeping my hopes up and from that then i think o well i still have a chance with them so ill just ask some other time. and what if i can make someone truly happy because i know them. and i know what they like. does that make me a d bag for wanting some i care about to be happy??

  • jonnydog

    this concept has been around much longer than the movie. I agree that it’s bullshit, but not just because of the ‘nice guys’. there is a lot of truth to the concept. There is a competing demand from men, by women. Men are expected to be exciting and mysterious and spontanious, and yet women also want men to be dependable and reliable and caring and sweet. The two roles are very difficult to meld into one

  • DoctorMuff

    All of this is just a woman’s ways of telling the manginas that they need to man up. stop trying to take a made up shortcut though friendship-town into knickers-town, it’s not a real shortcut it’s just been signposted as one, it’s actually lots of roundabouts and traffic lights. women haven’t got time for waiting in traffic, they need to be fucked right now. so go straight to poon-town… it’s not as far as you think.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Grahame-Turner/1804093 Grahame Turner

    I just discovered this, and I dig it. I am also late to the party. It’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. Mostly because I think this is treating a symptom, rather than the actual issue.

    Here’s what’s been in my head: After getting shot down, and having variations of the “Just friends” speech recited to me, I have definitely felt like there’s some intangible force field that surrounds a lot of my relationships with ladies. So, I definitely see the appeal of a concept like the Friend Zone, because it allows us to create an explanation for why women don’t like us that’s simple and lets us off easy. It’s tough to put your heart out there, and think something might be blossoming, only to get it shot down; it kind of hurts.

    The real problem comes when a guy starts to identify with it, instead of taking a long, hard look at himself. Eventually, a guy has to stop finding excuses and realize that, while he may be a great guy deep down, that isn’t enough; you have to find ways to make those great elements of yourself show on the outside. If women aren’t seeing how great you are, it’s probably because you’re doing something wrong.

    So, there’s a lot wrong with the concept of the Friend Zone…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705675577 Kevin Kennedy

    I was placed in the ‘friend zone’ by a dear female friend-21 YEARS AGO…all of my female friends I’ve known for more than 15 years…but all I wanted from them was sex, right? The ‘friend zone’ is a reality-whether you give it credence or not. When you watch a woman you are friends with go from one guy who basically tortures her mentally, to another guy who tortures her physically and takes her money, to another guy who won’t be faithful to her, to another guy who is an alcoholic…yet she’ll never date YOU because she says ‘you are too nice.’ WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? When you have women cry on your shoulder for TWO DECADES PLUS, saying that they wish they could find a ‘good man’ and still they associate themselves with the absolute WORST type of male-childish, jobless, and without any common interests except for the interest in having sex and getting a woman to pay for everything. I am a nice guy. I now am in a relationship with a woman I’ve known for 23 years…and it took her to get married, divorced, and taken advantage of to see that I wasn’t a bad choice. Men who have female friends do get really tired of seeing their female friends have relationships with guys they know are total $hite. That we tend to stop telling them after awhile seems to help more than explaining why. I learned (possibly too late) that the absolute best course of action is to withdraw my friendship if I don’t like the person that my ‘friendgirl’ is dating. It saves me a bunch of headaches and having to listen while a woman tries to figure out how to ‘fix’ the man (boy) she’s messing with. Oh…and I don’t call women bitches just because they don’t ‘give it up’ to me. I have called a woman insane because she does the same thing over and over and expects a different result….Men do the same thing at times. WOMEN-here’s a piece of advice: NEVER TAKE A MAN ON AS A ‘RECLAMATION’ PROJECT. If he’s ‘perfect except for (insert personality quirk or significant dealbreaking issue here)’ YOU CAN’T FIX IT. ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE USED CARS -BUY AS-IS, expect breakdowns, realize there is no repair shop for them (because they’re not manufactured anymore.

    • John

      The problem I have with the whole nice guy arguement is that a lot of nice guys can stand being friends with a woman who rejected them and expect nothing more. Yeah these nice guys don’t mind if she goes out with other guys but when they try to be a true friend and question her about the types of guys she’s dating or staying in a relationship with (guys who are obviously jerks to everyone and don’t hide it) these nice guys are now jerks/assholes. Again a lot of nice guys don’t care that the woman they once had interest in is now with someone else, they just wonder why those women just don’t choose better guys or stick with abusive guys. Yes they know it is the female friend’s choice of who to date, but so are the consequences. I honestly don’t see how nice guys wondering why they can’t find a woman (whether she is attractive or not) when their female friend is complaining about the jerks they’re dating is an asshole. Jerks of course being defined by their female friend and not them. A lot of nice guys also wonder what’s wrong with themselves because they can’t find a girlfriend and when they ask they get no honest answer. Yes it gets to some nice guys because there does come a certain point in your life when people (in general) start judging you based on your lack of dating experience.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais

    what a cunt you wouldn’t like it if a guy you liked and treated very well. blew you off for a stripper would you? why should guys like that? why is it wrong we demand respect not to be used like a Kleenex

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominic.blais.5 Dominic Blais

    every single woman that has been abused, cheated on, or left as a single mother is proof women like assholes

  • The Truth

    That article is pretty slanted. I get the nice guy’s issue, since I’m a generally nice person, and also somewhat of a bad boy, if I can say that without sounding pompous. However, if I get “friend zoned” by someone who I have feelings for, I would never flip the script and say that that girl is a bitch or anything. That clearly denotes that they only viewed the girl as an object of the their affection, and when denied, were hurt and clearly not mature enough to handle it without rudeness. Personally I take that shit in stride. I figure if I get friend zoned, let her have her fun, if she get’s hurt I will be there to help her get on her feet. If you consider yourself a man of any worth, you wouldn’t turn on a girl/woman that you care about simply because at that point in their life they don’t want to be with you. Not to sound like a creep or anything, but being shut down shouldn’t change your opinion about someone you care for. That’s fucked up.

    That being said, I have seen situations where a guy was “friend zoned” and the female clearly abuses that friendship to fucked up levels way beyond anything reasonable. Such as when a girl will send pics of her with her man, or talk about all the dudes she’s interested in with a friend she knows has feelings for her with blatant disregard for his feelings. All it takes is a bit of common sense with a side of common decency for everything to work out for the better. If you can’t recognize (as a guy) you fell for this person because you think that they are awesome, then changed your opinion of them in a heartbeat because they rejected you, maybe you should reexamine why you wanted to be with them in the first place.

    • Dominic-Oliver William Jean-Lu

      I get the feeling that this article is aimed sole-ly at the former issue as opposed to the latter. Either way, the whole blatant disregard for feelings thing is just a result of some people (regardless of gender) just being not-very-sensitive and thoughtful.

  • Dominic Blais

    and every time a woman says a man does not deserve sex for being nice she is promoting rape culture

  • array528

    Whoever wrote this article is a F$*KING IDIOT.

    I’m NOT a “nice guy” and have no trouble with women but this is just a man-hating rant. The grievances these men have ARE REAL and women ARE THE BIGGER PROBLEM in today’s dating world. Men are part of the problem, as is pop-culture and the superficial emphasis everyone seems to gravitate towards today but women are THE BIGGEST OF THESE PROBLEMs in today’s dating world.

    This author needs to grow up. What a child…

  • Friend

    If anyone feels this way, then they haven’t given this subject enough thought. The perspective of this situation is completely narrowed to the outlook of one girl on one [kind] of guy. First, let me set up the context in which men live.

    I am going to, for the sake of brevity, assume you understand the difference between sex and gender, but if not, you ought to start reading something before coming close to adding comments on such topics.

    We live in a male dominated society, correct? Or at least what once was but I don’t think we’re away completely. The interesting thing about male dominance is that we don’t just try to assert our dominance over women, but over everyone. From the time of childhood, boys are forced into rigid stereotypes. Boys will strong, boys will be rambunctious, boys will exploit women, boys will be smart, physical, aggressive, independent, stoic, and competitive. The best part about it, growing up, confrontations arise in which you need to prove that you are fitting the mold. Otherwise, you’re a fag, a girl, a sissy, a vagina, a baby. All of these put downs are emasculating and are designed to engender the man (look at the put downs); put him in a subservient, female, role. So innate is our sexism that school yard kids of both sexes participate in this sort of shaming.
    http://www.freeessays.cc/db/44/smu72.shtml
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_stereotype
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beyond-pink-and-blue/201208/your-son-may-be-teased-even-small-variations-the-norm
    http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2011/05/07/gender_stereotypes_easing_more_for_girls_than_boys/
    Some additional reading on this if you disagree. There is a lot of literature on this. I forget why, and sort of tangential to my point is that women also contribute to these stereotypes but it’s a function all society, not any particular gender.

    Okay, so how does this play into our ‘nice guy’ scenario? Well one consequence is that by the time we hit 14 as boys, we have the vocabulary to identify a very small subset of our emotions because we’re not allowed to talk about them. We can’t talk about being scared, sad, lonely, or anything else that shows weakness. We (and maybe personally anecdotal) so much want to feel love just like women but we’re not allowed to ask for it. We’re not allowed to want it. Men, we only want to have conquests. However, the nice guy comes along and he has survived a relatively brutal trip through adolescence- probably got made fun of a lot but like most men, have internalized it to deal with later when we might develop the emotional maturity to do so.

    Here is the number one ‘friend-zone’ mistake made by the guy. Not being clear with intentions. The guy MUST STATE HIS INTENTIONS AND DO IT EARLY. The reason most genuinely nice guys and the subset described here (which sound like 17 year old world of warcraft players) fail to do this is because they have no idea how to translate their feelings into words. My god, I’ve gotten better, but talking with my girlfriend at times, my throat tightens up, I can’t say what I’m feeling, I tear up from frustration at times because I can’t articulate my emotions. It takes practice and my Irish based family isn’t much for it. If this doesn’t happen, the girl will never know or entertain the idea unless you’re a stud muffin. (There are a whole lot of social pressures in why women don’t ask out men and it’s much akin, but not topic of this post). It also isn’t fair to get mad at her later when she does find another guy because you were snoozing. The line “Take me to bed or lose me forever” isn’t a joke. Women want the love and happiness a relationship brings and “grow a pair and ask her out”.

    Aside:
    I bet some “feminist” reading this are shaking their heads in complete sexist glory right now, and just realizing how they have perpetuated forced genders on men; contributed to sexism.

    Once you make those intentions clear, the girl can not (probably can, but from my experience, most women will be honest and up front from the start. Something I’ve grown to really appreciate. So will most likely not) avoid the topic and will judge you. There are several factors and the weighting of each of them varies from girl to girl and even over time among girls. Really it comes down to one thing: protection. Really it is. Now I bet some fists are pumping now in rage. Let me explain protection. Evolution has driven humans to produce few offspring, and in nature, the amount of energy that goes into protection is inversely related to offspring size. Spiders hatch like 1000s of little guys, mom doesn’t care, probably eats a couple. Anyone want to stand between a mom bear and her cub? I wouldn’t. Protection comes in various forms, but are essentially the necessities. Muscles, Health (Corelated to obesiety, but not the only thing), Independence, Job, and Money are the bases used to judge your viability as a mate. You need to protect her and your offspring so you need to be healthy and able to provide. Weighting on these are completely subjective and vary greatly. If she says no, then you just didn’t add up.

    As a guy, I think a decision needs to be made at this point. You can consider maybe she has under ranked one of your stronger attributes or maybe she heavily weights one of your weakest. You could try, if you think she is mature enough to be honest, asking her to explain. You also have to be fair and understand she doesn’t owe you an explanation. Either way you need to decide if you can win her over or not. Most likely we go for it because we are told to have confidence in ourselves; be confident, pursue girls, and girls will like you. We also have to act like you didn’t hurt us when you said no. We have to act like it was no big deal because men don’t have emotions. So we decide to be your friend. And this is when the ‘nice guy’ comes out, as explained above.

    We desire love. Just like and other social organisms, men desire it, they need it, and they want it. We have put a lot on the line to tell you this. We just got denied, and now we have to hide our hurt. Our friendship grows a little, and I can feel warmth, I can feel genuine love (however plutonic it may be) and it is awesome. It’s just a small taste. The problem is that the very thing you are yelling at us for not doing (love you for everything but your vagina) is exactly what we do as nice guys when we are just your friend. Now we have to see you date these other guys who hurt you, so naturally we want to protect you (because that’s why you would date us) so we try to help you realize the qualities you are valuing are causing you grief. Time and time again, that friend is there for you, falling in love you more and more, and getting hurt again every time you start dating someone else. Does this sound like a friendship? It sounds absolutely, emotionally masochistic to me. Well, the hurt build up, resentment of letting yourself get close to this person even though she was honest up front, depression and frustration set in. It’s 2 am, you’re drunk on whiskey and all your inhibitions are gone, and all of these emotions come out of you in one catastrophic event. It’s channeled to one of the few emotions men are allowed to have: Anger. The shit that comes out of your mouth would get you a standing ovation from Bob Saget and the girl from Kick-Ass. Your friend goes home crying, calling you the asshole ‘nice guy’.

    I know this story.

    It took two years of not seeing her for us to eventually start our friendship over. Ten years later we talk from time to time even though we live stats apart. It’s not that we don’t want to be friends with you, it’s we don’t want to be JUST friends with you. We love you and it’s unreciprocated. Nothing hurts more and our society does not allow men to deal with it properly. Calling us ‘Nice guy’ assholes shows a complete lack of empathy. I can understand there is probably some guys who go for this approach solely to score, but most nice guys are genuinely nice and genuinely human, subject to emotion.

    That’s why my advice to all guys who get friend zoned- Stop seeing that person. Space and Distance kill emotions like DDT kills birds. Once you’re free, you can attempt friendship again, but I’d be wary. She probably still has the qualities you loved and the lack of self-confidence to realize it. I think that is part of the reason this perspective exists. If you think all you have to offer is a vagina, it’s all you’re going to think a guy wants.

    I think this article completely lacks perspective and is most likely an over generalizations of an authors anecdotes. I don’t think the author is completely wrong. In fact, I know guys she talks about. Not all nice guys are tithing for sex.

    Peace friends.

    Oh, after undergrad I started grad school and now have my Ph.D. You’d be amazed at how many of these girls are trying to date me now. Obviously, my pride prevents it, but for you others who may be less proud, there’s hope.

    • Friend

      Hey nay sayer, what’s the beef? Anything you particularly disagree with or pretty much all of it in general?

      Also, at the bar tonight, with one of my female lab mate friends. She was telling me her type.

      1. How much money he makes/what does he do?
      2. How tall is he (admittedly, she’s a friggin giant.)
      3. How smart is he

      Granted, she didn’t go for fat/thin, but there you have it.

      1. Ability to provide
      2. Physically dominant trait
      3. I mean seriously, what do we want Dr. Michael Jordon?

      I’m tired of feminism becoming synonymous with female driven sexism. I’m tired of reading topics that evaluate whether something is good for feminism; as if feminism is an entity. Feminism is the idea that both sexes, rather all genders, are equal. However, typical mainstream knowledge would consider it the idea to make things equal for women. Which inherently doesn’t take into account anyone else and thus is a bias towards women alone.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

      Listen to the tone.

      Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women

      “for women”

      However, this is an absurd bastardization of the real intent of feminism which can be more aptly defined

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_and_equality

      In general, feminism is a belief in equality between the two genders.

      Everything that society does should be evaluated with the ideals presented in feminism. We shouldn’t worry about what we are doing being ‘okay’ with feminism. It’s not inherently socially equal.

      • Dominic-Oliver William Jean-Lu

        The biggest problem, perhaps, is that it has the maternal (?) prefix “fem”. The very NAME of feminism suggests that it is solely based towards equality “for women” (as a mathematician that sentence is disturbingly wrong) and there are some people who self-identify with “feminist” (enough for it to be a popular trope) that are misandrous that give people who just want equality.

        The ideals presented by feminism are good, but the word itself is a loaded word, that inspires thoughts of crew-cuts and butch lesbians and that kind of image (not that either of these things are inherently bad, but I am sure you can see my point).

        Humanist is another one that has been similarly demonized… This time by feminists, as being the rant-y neckbeard types (again neither of which are bad qualities necessarily… though I’m not a big fan of a neckbeard – it’s kind of itchy!) that are really misogynists in disguise… Which isn’t true, but I can see feminists not wanting to abandon such an old movement with a lot of momentum behind it, in favour of something that more men could feel they identify with. Which, ironically, is a rather right-wing notion.

  • DARTHSUHTEK

    If a woman tells you “let’s just be friends” they are actually trying to let you down gently. How is that bitchy? And wtf is with all this “the ‘niceness isn’t an express ticket to sex attitude’ actually promotes rape?” Everyone has been rejected in some form or the other (even women! *gasp*). What if you only applied to one university then got rejected by it? would you reapply every year and beg them to let you in? I hope not.

  • tony

    I am short (5’7″), bald, dark, below average looking and I have dated and bedded about 20 women in the last 10 years…while being married!. I treated them all super sweet at first and then like garbage once I scored because I found them all to be untrustworthy like myself. I was a sort of bad boy without any tattoos or criminal record. I just don’t trust most women out there. I caught some of them cheating on me too so I believe most women are sluts just like men. It’s a very vicious dating world nowadays.

  • Suzie Q

    Awesome!!! People make excuses for men and blame and invalidate women all the time. When you think of it from a humanistic perspective, friends should be just that… Friends. But women are harshly criticized and punished and even accused of liking the “bad guys” because they got rejected. And it’s true, these nice guys aren’t so nice. Women are expected to give into a man just because he’s there. The bad guys secretly know what women want and they play the role of the confident well put together guy when they are wolves in sheep’s clothing.

  • Just nice to be nice

    This is what I tell every other “nice guy” me being a guy who is genuinely nice just because I was raised that way. Just because you do a couple of nice things for that particular person doesn’t mean they should date you. All in all I agree with this.

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  • Spam

    (1) There’s a little thing called tact. Saying “just friends” *IS* tactfully quite clear if not explicit.
    (2) Women are socially conditioned not to be confrontational and not to hurt the male ego.

    (3) Even so, the discomfort with being explicit is not exclusive to women. Men dance around the subject of their interest out of fear of humiliation. Women dance around the subject of their lack of interest for the exact same reason.
    (4) Women also have the additional fear of provoking a disproportionate and violent reaction from men. Not, it must b said, because women are irrationally fearful, but because (a) it happens with sad frequency and (b) women are constantly told men have no self-control when it comes to women.

    • Friend

      (2) Says who? The responses I’ve heard would suggest otherwise. My experiences have convinced me that many girls are outright insensitive.

      (4) Yes. All men are unable to control their emotions. Disappointment of you saying no must be followed up with a disproportionate act of aggression or we’re simply not a man. This bullshit thinking is why the move that “only men can stop rape” has so many supporters. Yet, the misogyny outburst when a man holds a door for a woman because “she is damn strong and independent enough to open her own door” tells me chivalry is under appreciated. Let us get our white armor on and mount our valiant steeds to come to your rescue.

    • Bobb

      BULLSHIT! women act cunningly, diplomatically and indirectly not by some social fear or stereotype, but BECAUSE THATS THEIR FUCKING NATURE. men and women are fucking DIFFERENT in many levels, and thats no exception.

  • VRJensen1 .

    I for one don’t want to be “just friends” with my wife..and when she says “I’m Thirsty” I jump and run for water….one can ask to be taken advantage of by being to eager to please. Also…Easy come easy go. And I’m the “easy come” she hasn’t ever had to work whatsoever for me. She say’s “I don’t get it, I find you attractive, and your a really nice guy, I feel like I love you more as a brother than as a husband. You deserve somebody who can love you back.” and “you try too hard. I don’t want you to be my lap dog…, Please stop trying to hold my hand, it makes me feel obligated to feel a certain way about you…..” I’m starting to think that she’s right and that I need to quit trying. I should go find my long lost old friends that I’ve quit hanging out with in order to spend all my time with her. And that I should quit being such a “Nice Guy!” I’m just asking to be abused. My Entire Self Worth is based off her opinion of me. I’ve invested my whole life into Us and I think maybe it’s time for me to extricate enough of myself from this relationship to not be suicidal when she decides that she’s going to leave me for the Narcissist in the Corvette. Yes I’m Scared Shi7less and yes it’s obvious that I’m Way Too Much of a “Nice Guy!”

  • waffles

    “maybe—just maybe—want to date and sex people we’re attracted to”

    just admitted to caring about looks more than how your being treated.

    “Actual respect, not the kind you feign in an attempt to get me into bed with yo”

    you couldn’t tell actual respect from fake until something happens.

    and you know what that something usually is?

    you putting someone in the friendzone.

    which is just a tool for you to still get something out of that person and use them.

    so YOU struck first.

    becuase, as you said, everyones wising up to the friendzone

    which is just a tool to evade conflict, say “no your ugly”, and keep someone you like on a leash til your done being a whore and want a real relationship.

    womens freedom to pick and choose who they wanna fuck whenever they want is all you care about.

    and still you somehow think your slutty, using, abusive, shallow ass is respectable or ENTITLED to respect. go get bent

    • Dominic-Oliver William Jean-Lu

      She just said “attracted to”. I’m attracted to how witty and funny my girlfriend is, as opposed to solely her appearance.

      You /can/ tell the difference; ulterior motives slip through and reveal themselves as an ugly undertone to your bitter self-pitying demeanour.

      She struck first? What exactly are they getting out of this person that they’ve put in the friend zone? You mean that actually being someone’s friend is so horrible and awful that when someone declares you their friend, that you’re being USED? If you don’t want to be their friend you don’t have to. You can say you don’t want to be friends; it’s not hard, trust me. It doesn’t make you an asshole.

      “womens freedom to pick and choose why they wanna fuck whenever they want” (sic.) you mean like women shouldn’t get to choose who they want to fuck? As in like it’s a guy’s choice what she does with her body? That is rape-culture at its finest, and I genuinely didn’t think there were people out there. This lady is entitled to as much respect as the next person, and making a blog post saying she dislikes people who literally want only to fuck her and have no interest in her otherwise does NOT take away from that respect.

      NB: I am not a feminist. I believe in gender-equality, achieved through focusing on the needs of BOTH sexes. But you are a creepy bloke.

  • Eric Hulk Brown

    Which is why I am not a nice guy anaymore I don’t want a lot of friend and I am up front with a woman if we are not going to be together I don’t want to be your friend I don’t want to hear you problems about that worthless punk you had children with you brought this on your self.

  • Alex Jones

    Ok just saying the friend zone does to exist, just not the way it’s mentioned in this post. How it happens is two people become friends based on common interest and just having a good time together while one person sees it as friendly and the other feels a spark. They ask the other person out only to find out they see them as just friends… Bam friend zone just like that. It doesn’t mean the person who wants to be just friends is a bitch or a slut, they just don’t feel that spark.

  • Alex Jones

    And also I don’t see how there can be so many ignorant as to believe just women or just men are shallow. There’s obviously some assholes in both sexes.

  • An actual Nice Guy

    I think the movies are less poisonous than someone so conceited and judgmental with an audience putting out a statement laced with this level of garbage. Being a good man isn’t a condition or a syndrome. Believe it or not they actually do exist, but throwing out this kind of slag to the public isn’t exactly going to make them come running to you now is it?

  • Count Mackula

    I disagree. Grow up.

  • RogerWhaaaat

    If you liked this text, congratulations: you have insecurity problems!!! And more! You cannot admit it, so you blame society.

    So much mimimi.

    Everyone says bad things about others behind their back, it is even healthy when it is done with the proper frequency. Live with it.
    When I go to 9gag or some other places where I find this “friendzone” topic, it is always because it seems the girl take advantage of the guy who “loves” her, not simply because the girl rejected him.
    http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4708/38833410150460906561765.jpg

  • Marcus

    I have a hard time being honest about my feelings up front, which is a common problem Nice Guys tend to have. It’s not just because I fear rejection though, I also am not fond of the idea that those feelings I just admitted to might taint the friendship with a certain awkwardness that said friendship might never recover from. I know, “get over it and move on,” but I grew up homeschooled and with few friends as it is, so I still kinda have that risk-aversion part of my brain that wants to avoid that like the plague. It’s a tick that I need to get over, but that’s easier said than done.

    Also, I never felt like women were bitches or whores or whatever for not feeling that way about me. I always knew that they don’t “owe” me a relationship. I was and still am deeply frustrated about being so lost when it comes to finding someone who could actually love me that I’d just continue beating the shit out of myself (figuratively) about it. I know that’s not productive or healthy, but clearly frustration doesn’t care about that.

    I’m not confident, that much should be perfectly clear by now. I’m not cowering in the corner, but eye-contact can be hard, knowing what to talk about can be hard no matter how active my listening might be, and it seems like there aren’t any new hobbies or whatever that I can take up that make me feel any more confident in myself.

    So what’s my point? My point is that while there are a lot of “Nice Guys” who are really just sexist assholes who need wake up and accept reality, I want you all to understand that there are those of us who just want to be loved but have no idea what we’re really supposed to do to find that love, if anything. And with the constant barrage of “dating advice” that just ends up being a lot of cliched and/or contradictory noise, that’s a hard task for us.

  • Kath

    I think being friends with a guy who likes you ( many times he doesn’t even really like you, he likes your body) is the single most annoying, sickening thing, ever! Guys, if you believe you are truly in love or like or whatever with a woman, and just can’t accept the friend zone, to the point where you believe she will someday change her mind, just end the friendship in totality. You become disgustingly overbearing when a woman is not attracted to you, and you’re in the fried zone, and you keeping making advances, sometimes little physical ones. My skin truly crawls now, when I figured out only recently that one of my friends was in like/love/whatever with me, and is always trying to steal hugs for some unessential reasons, and to make maters worse, you can feel it in his body language. I have come to the point now where am truly disliking him.

  • Guest

    As a genuine Nice Guy, I’m offended and insulted by this
    whole article and its inaccuracy. Need to clarify and distinguish the
    difference between a “Nice Guy” and someone with this alleged
    “Nice Guy Syndrome”, which I’m actually interpreting their description
    of him moreso to be an “Ulterior Motives Guy” posing as a “Nice
    Guy” instead. They are also mixing up the “Friend Zone” and what
    it simply means for a girl to say “No, thanks”. It should be more
    clarified to distinguish the “Friend Zone” and “No Zone” instead.
    There’s a difference, and I, a true Nice Guy, know and understand ALL of this.
    And I guess if it’s any consolation, the links to this author’s alleged Twitter
    and Tumblr don’t work, so maybe they’ve received more criticism than
    compliments for something that’s poorly written and actually attacks genuine
    Nice Guys not distinguished from the imposters that are the true target of this
    article. And the author’s film source isn’t even utilized properly, I’ll
    correct it and I think Chris Rock’s comedy bit about “Platonic Friends”
    would’ve been much more accurate to this. But then again, the author chose a
    hokey chick flick for her source.

    A “Nice Guy”, by definition, is actually a guy (such as myself) that
    is always nice, doing everything morally good and right by himself, by how he
    treats women and all the other chivalrous acts and gentlemanly conduct that
    come with the title. His ultimate objective is not to bed the woman, but to win
    her heart and keep it. This is easily confused with the imposter that only
    wishes to bed the woman, the “Ulterior Motives Guy”, those that give
    us Nice Guys the bad rep. The more skilled these imposters are, you never see
    them coming and it’s quite unfortunate for both the real Nice Guys and the
    women.

    I’m a Nice Guy (both my chosen title and the title given to me by a few women)
    but I do not have “Nice Guy Syndrome” because I already know my place amongst
    the dating pool with women: because I’m never the guy they ever find attractive
    in any way. They just don’t look at me that way. And this can easily be
    attributed to my looks, lack of $$$, no fancy car/attire or other riches. The
    best description of my appearance is a combo of Jason Statham (same shaped head
    and shaved hairstyle showing hints of thinning hair, slim but muscular/athletic
    physique) and Nicholas Cage (large eyes, distinguished cheekbones/chin).
    Obviously these 2 celebrities aren’t looked at for sex appeal or handsomeness
    and so you get my point: I can never get a woman’s attention. I’m not a Brad
    Pitt/Channing Tatum/Ryan Gosling etc etc whomever you deem your most desired
    hunk look that makes you go weak in the knees. And it’s all stuff that is out
    of my control; there’s nothing I can possibly do to make myself more attractive
    (not without about $80k for hair transplantation among other cosmetic fixes
    across my whole body). It doesn’t help the case that we live in a vain society
    where looks make up something like 95% of your first impression when it comes
    to dating, interviews, etc. Men are usually harped on for being vain and only
    into women for their looks, but that also goes the other way, evidenced by me
    being a Nice Guy and not someone that can attract women at all. The prettyboy
    bad boys, no matter how poorly they treat you, still catch your eye and your attention
    and as you proceed to think with the wrong region of your body, you get sucked
    into the deception as this imposter uses you and abuses you. I’ve been rejected
    by a girl for being “too nice” and sure enough, she instead chose the hunky
    badboy who did eventually treat her like dirt and left her. That was my first
    proof of evidence.

    The movie “Just Friends” is about an
    average guy (Ryan Reynolds’s character, the Nice Guy) who while he is “Friend
    Zone”d by the girl (Amy Smart), he becomes complacent with being her friend
    over not being in her life at all. As they graduate high school and go their
    separate ways, that’s when he goes through his changes to re-market himself as
    a suitable suitor for her. It’s Chris Klein’s character (the Ulterior Motives
    Guy) that is posing as a friend since he is the imposter Nice Guy since he’s
    the one all embittered about being “Friend-Zoned” all that time while
    the former understood why he was her friend (he was insecure and felt
    unattractive, but still wanted to be around her instead of just another guy)
    despite his additional feelings. It’s what leads him on that long quest for a
    successful career and to pretty himself up. I could go on, but now I’m losing
    focus on this whole thing and done with ranting for longer than the article
    itself was.

  • Tristan Enseleit

    As a genuine Nice Guy, I’m offended and insulted by this
    article and its inaccuracy. Need to clarify and distinguish the difference
    between a “Nice Guy” and someone with this alleged “Nice Guy
    Syndrome”, which I’m actually interpreting their description of him moreso
    to be an “Ulterior Motives Guy” posing as a “Nice Guy”
    instead. They are also mixing up the “Friend Zone” and what it simply
    means for a girl to say “No, thanks”. The “Friend Zone” vs. “No
    Zone”. There’s a difference, and I, a true Nice Guy, know and understand ALL of
    this. And I guess if it’s any consolation, the links to this author’s alleged
    Twitter and Tumblr don’t work, so maybe they’ve received more criticism than
    compliments for something that’s poorly written and actually attacks genuine
    Nice Guys while the real target of this article is the imposters. And the
    author’s film source isn’t even utilized properly, I think Chris Rock’s comedy
    bit about “Platonic Friends” would’ve been much more accurate to this.

    A “Nice Guy”, by my definition, is actually a
    guy (such as myself) that is always nice and virtuous, doing everything morally
    good and right by himself, by how he treats women and all the other chivalrous
    acts and gentlemanly conduct that come with the title. His ultimate objective
    is not to bed the woman, but to win her heart and keep it. This is easily
    confused with the imposter that only wishes to bed the woman at all costs and
    resorts to any psychological trickery, the “Ulterior Motives Guy”,
    those that give us Nice Guys the bad rep. The more skilled these imposters are,
    you never see them coming and it’s quite unfortunate for 2 parties: the real
    Nice Guys and unsuspecting women.

    I’m a Nice Guy (both my chosen title and the title given to me by a few women)
    but I do not have “Nice Guy Syndrome” because I already know my place amongst
    the dating pool: because I’m never the guy they ever find attractive or desire. They just don’t look at me that
    way. And this can easily be attributed to my looks, lack of $$$, no fancy
    car/attire or other riches. The best description of my appearance is a combo of
    Jason Statham (same shaped head and shaved hairstyle showing hints of thinning
    hair, slim but muscular/athletic physique) and Nicholas Cage (large eyes,
    distinguished cheekbones/chin). Obviously, 2 celebrities not necessarily looked
    at for sex appeal or handsomeness and so you get my point: I can never get a
    woman’s attention. I’m not a Brad Pitt/Channing Tatum/Ryan Gosling etc etc
    insert your most desired celebrity hunk that makes you weak in the knees. And
    it’s all stuff that is out of my control; there’s nothing I can possibly do to
    make myself more attractive (not without about $80k for hair transplantation
    among other cosmetic fixes across my whole body). It doesn’t help the case that
    we live in a vain society where looks make up something like 95% of your first
    impression when it comes to dating, interviews, etc. Men are usually harped on
    for being vain and only into women for their looks, but that also goes the
    other way, evidenced by me being a Nice Guy and not someone that can attract
    women at all. The prettyboy bad boys, no matter how poorly they treat you,
    still catch your eye and your attention and as you proceed to think with the
    wrong region of your body, you get sucked into the deception as this imposter
    uses you and abuses you. I’ve been rejected by a girl for being “too nice” and
    sure enough, she instead chose the hunky badboy who did eventually treat her
    like dirt and left her. That was my first proof of evidence.

    The movie “Just Friends” is about an
    average guy (Ryan Reynolds’s character, the Nice Guy) who while he is “Friend
    Zone”d by the girl (Amy Smart), he becomes complacent with being her friend
    over not being in her life at all. As they graduate high school and go their
    separate ways, that’s when he goes through his changes to re-market himself as
    a suitable suitor for her. It’s Chris Klein’s character (the Ulterior Motives
    Guy) that is posing as a friend since he is the imposter Nice Guy since he’s
    the one all embittered about being “Friend-Zoned” all that time while
    the former understood why he was her friend (he was insecure and felt
    unattractive, but still wanted to be around her instead of just another guy)
    despite his additional feelings. It’s what leads him on that long quest for a
    successful career and to pretty himself up. Should re-watch Chris Rock’s old
    comedy bit about “Platonic Friends” and that hazard of getting into the “Friend
    Zone” as he mentions, that’s him being honest about the “Ulterior Motive Guy”.
    Done with my rant, as I know this isn’t very organized at all.

  • tom

    Great article, good f**king point. I’m sure many of us have gone through a situation where you find yourself infatuated with a friend, and that friend may not return those feelings. Yes it hurts. But to resent that friend, judge them and disregard their own happiness would make you a pretty shitty friend in deed.

  • Jon

    The fact that your pidgeon holing all men that say they are “nice guys” and saying they all bad mouth the women they are spurrned by (but more often than not remain loyal friends with) shows how miss informed you are.

    Your blatant and obvious hissy fit over the term “friend zone” yet still continue to use the term along with a very bias opinion of those who claim to be a part of the “mysoginistic make-believe land” screams that you merely got called a few names by someone who found you attractive but you did not feel the same way.
    Your assumptions about the behaviour of nearly every male that you are not interested in is nothing more than a name calling and immature attempt to serve your own ego and sense of self importance.

    If you bothered to do any real research on the subject it would have been clear. You didn’t. You just referenced a bad movie and threw out some assumptions. There are real psychological reasons why men put themselves in that position. Sometimes it is because of the perceived “bad boy” syndrome. Some women actually are seeking approval from those men who appear to not care enough about women. Some men see this as those men being mean to the woman they care about. The women enjoy the challenge.
    So if you did any research you would have seen that its not men’s fault.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    This post is an example of what psychologists call “projection.” Men live with rejection all their lives and take it pretty well. To be male is to be rejected by most females, unless you’re in the Brad Pitt fame-looks sphere.

    Ah, but when a female gets rejected…then there’s hell to pay! This is why women hate guys who can’t take rejection — they don’t like that quality in themselves so they project those feelings onto men. The “nice guys” spoken about here exist, but are not indicative of most men. But the phrase “a woman scorned” has become a colloquialism for a reason.

  • chris

    I started to find my close friend attractive once, she’s very attractive and I started to wish I was gay just so I wouldnt be attracted to her. But I found myself becoming jealous of her boyfriends. I drunkenly told her I sometimes want to be more than friends, but that the friendship means much more to me.

    I think I’m in the friend zone. I don’t think I deserve to get laid. I don’t think I deserve her to wake up one day and give me a chance; maybe it’s a fleeting hope because she is very attractive, great to be around, and would make a really great girlfriend. If that never happens, I’m fine with that (sure I’ll be a bit upset, but I think that’s natural). You cannot take a 5 or 6 and pair them up with a 9 or 10 and think that things will go smoothly; they won’t. One will at some point want something a bit different to friendship, while the other may not.

    You cannot blame a guy for sometimes wanting to have sex with an attractive girl that they are close to. This does not mean everything they have done is sprinkled with lust all over it. There is a difference between ”would” and ”want”…..these people ”would” have sex with their friends, the ”want” isn’t always there.

    Just because some dickheads are nice purely with a sexual motivation and leave all bitter and feeling entitled, DOES NOT mean every ”nice guy” is like that. You are really wrong for implying this and it makes you seem like the bitter one.

  • chris

    I agree he is wrong. Though a similar situation that seems to be true is: the difference between creepy and smooth is how the guy looks.

    • dingdong

      That’s complete bullshit. I know tons of weird looking guys who always get the P.

  • Halperin

    Yeah! This is great advice for all you “Nice Guys.” Now shutup and sit there in the corner and eat your bowl of heartbreak with a sh*t eating grin on your face!! Don’t you DARE clean yourself up, get your act together, and DON’T let us catch you being happy with another woman. You will stay single and like it! Look at me and feel the pain as you long for what you’ll never have. Pretend it doesn’t hurt!! Shame on you for falling in love with your friend and having emotions when she rejects you.

    /Sarcasm.

  • Walker

    This article sucks. Complete backlash with no empathy, at all.

    There is no mention of the “nice guys” that were there, being the nice guy,despite knowing that they had no chance, because hanging out with that girl was a better option than having sex with some other chick’s that he could have had that night. Yep. There are attractive nice guys too, that aren’t nerds, socially awkward, fat, or ugly. They attract women and get laid.

    I’ve had sex with 4 different girls in 48 hours before. What can I say, it was my birthday. lol. Say I’m lying, say it’s gross, say what you want, but It’s true. And I’m posting anon, so really, if it wasn’t true, whats the point in bragging?

    My point here ^^^^ is I am no stranger to being desired. I wasn’t nice to the girl so I could fuck her. I was nice because I loved her.

    You cant be every ones favorite flavor. She didn’t have to find me attractive, she didn’t owe me anything. But its just really hard for a person to handle why it’s not a two way street sometimes.There is no blaming the girl. It’s just… the friendzone is most painful conundrum a guy can ponder.

    THAT, is the friend zone. Oh, and blaming a movie for something that’s happened since the dawn of time is ludicrous.

    I will close this with some more shameful male honesty: A guy that “just wants to get laid” would never complain about the friendzone. If someone bitches about the friendzone, 9 out of 10 he loves the girl, but he is taught that being mushy isn’t manly, so he says what he has to to make it sound like he just wanted pussy.

    Eventually, who knows… men and women can have a predominantly rational discourse?

  • Ryan Petrick

    Let me guess you failed to keep a guy who treated you right, in the friendzone while you were spreading your legs for some asshole behind the bar?

  • babayaga

    The friendzone doesn’t exist. However for some people there is a moral boundary in keeping people as backup plans or potential partners or rejected partners that are still clinging to hope, etc, in any active manner when in a monogamous relationship.

    Emotional infidelity is a concern for some people and having a friend that you would also possibly want to date if single could be seen as just too great a risk for a person to be comfortable with.

    This gets especially more complicated with people that identify as bisexual.

    Boundaries lines and needs should be based individual to individual and there is nothing wrong with a person with good reason to have boundaries against their mate continuing friendships with potential mates.

    The disgruntled men on the internet using the term friendzone inappropriately is disgusting, no doubt. However let us not sweep the reality under the carpet in an attempt to make things fixed quick.

    • jm313

      Actually the friend zone does exist and I hear many men and women using the term.

  • Sky

    I’ve recently been friend-zoned, and i”m ok with it. I respect her decision. I think that honestly i would make a far greater friend for her than romantic. As her friend I can take care of her no matter what, I’ll look out for her. I may have some minor jealousy with her boyfriend but that’s ok, I know that if she chose him, he must be a better guy than me. If she ever needs help, I’m a phone call away. I know its weird but i kinda prefer being “just friends” that way i don’t have to worry about breaking up with her her losing interest in me. Now we can just hang out as friends, later one day I hope I’ll meet a girl like her whom does like me, if not; I’ve survived this long without a girlfriend, i suppose I could go a lot longer. sincerely sky

  • Lee Georgeson

    Well I have been a nice guy my whole life. Never had a girlfriend, even when I am making them laugh. I hope its because I am fat. Otherwise I am genuinely screwed.

  • masterD

    Nice guys may get mad out of frustration, which is a natural reaction. Dont confuse their attitude with their personality.
    Dont antagonize them either just because they are mad. A lot of girls may piss off a great guy and once he obviously gets mad, she is quick to claim that he is another asshole. Sad world we live in, and just FYI, as human beings nobody is perfect.

  • Canadian

    Sorry, but some women go out of their way to be friends with nice guys and have sex with bad boys. So, if you are compatible with the female at an emotional or personal level, you’ll never get into her pants. If you are an obnoxious self centered jerk with lots of confidence and come on strong, well youll get laid but youll never know her. After a few days, a week at best, she will forget she knows you.

    Theories abound. First, fear of commitment and lust. She wants sex, not a relationship. IF she wanted a relationship she would have sex with guys who were actually compatible with her at a non physical level. (note- you could be physically sexy and she will still not have sex with you, because you are compatible with her and she could fall for. She likely feels you want a relationship and knows she does not want one.

    Second, a biological stance, females of many species hook up with a guy who is well to do resource wise or personally wise (compatible) but have sex with other males who are “dominate” or “Bad boys” for their genes…….so you sucker get to raise another guy’s kids in your nice house with your money. Common with monkeys, birds, and humans. A good percentage of children in American homes are NOT of their father’s DNA, and they don’t know it.

  • dingdong

    If you’re stupid enough that you can’t take the hint, then you don’t deserve any better treatment.

  • João Sá

    “You know, like not being physically attracted to them.” So basically you’re saying that everyone who doesnt have a pretty face, pretty eyes and pretty body are pretty much fucked.
    Thats some “true love” right there.
    I dated some girls who werent “physically attractive” i gave them a chance because looks arent everything. Everyone is unique and everyone has their own beauty and something to offer. If a guy approaches you and you reject him just because he’s not a super hot model than that just means you are as shallow as the “nice guys” who only think about sex.

  • Jace Mindue

    My shoulder is not for a woman to cry on but woman to be in a relationship this oh your such a nice guy but your not an asshole I don’t love you go fuck your self you stupid woman

  • CDZ

    I don’t think I’ve ever read something so stupid. There are so many flaws in your argument I can’t even begin to tear it apart. While there definitely are flaws in the traditional “friend zone” idea, this piece of writing is just an attack without examining any of the real possible reasons for why “friend zone” is still such a pervasive social facet. Sieg Hiel, Femininazi!

  • Kieran McMullen

    How is the friend zone misogynistic? at least how is it intrinsically misogynistic? Sometimes one party (male or female) in a mixed gender friendship, will want to have something more. This gives the person two choices, either to confront this, tell the other person and risk losing the friendship (undesirable) but also risk the relationship happening (desirable), or completely leave altogether because those feelings don’t just go away (undesirable). So you can’t leave, and you can’t push any further, so you are trapped, almost in some sort of “Zone.” It happens, it probably always has ever since men and women started freely socialising with one another, putting a name to it is in no way misogynistic.

  • Julian

    Haha you feminist cunts are way more sexist than the guys you demonize. So, let me get this straight…a nice guy, deep down, is not a nice guy at all if he craves the very thing EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING CRAVES? Sex? Oh, what a fucking crime. Nooo…! Somebody hungout with a girl they found amazingly attractive and liked/loved mainly because they wanted to have sex with that person? What is wrong with that? Get this through your fucking heads, you FEMINAZI twats; There is nothing rude, immoral or wrong with wanting sex, even if it is the only reason you hangout with somebody in the first place. It’s pure instinct you fucking idiots.

    Furthermore, this article is also bullshit because (believe it or not), I was put in the Friend Zone by a beautiful blue-eyed petite girl with a great personality in high school. I wasn’t very confident in those days, but I was maturing and she randomly acknowledged me one day and showed a genuine interest in getting to know me. It felt amazing. I admitted pretty early on that I was crazy about her, and for one night or so, she claimed to like me back. I had never felt more happy, then the next day, she said she was getting back together with her ex-boyfriend for the third time. I was bummed to say the least, especially since they broke up for the third time a week or so later. She said she still just wanted to be friends. I was gutted (and not because I only wanted sex, you fucks) because I wanted to hangout with her and just simply talk to her because being near her made me feel weirdly great. I wanted to maximize the time spent with her, so a relationship was ideal. Plus, I would have loved to have somebody to go to dances and parties with senior year that I genuinely cared about, rather than some girl who had half the personality she did. I enjoyed the friendship for awhile, but she made things difficult. She constantly talked about other guys, had sex with some of my best friends (it’s her body, I know, but it hurt), and teased me with the strangest texts. I told her every now and again that I still liked her and hated it when she did all that, but she didn’t care. She even told me she wanted to go out with me like six months into our friendship, then immediately said she was kidding. I was so confused by that, then realized she was testing me. She was one of those girls who needed to have somebody constantly admire them. She used me, manipulated me, I put up with all of it. I answered every call and text when she was in distress and needed somebody to cheer her up. I was always there. I was a nice person who actually cared about how she was feeling. Yeah, sure, sex was on the back of my mind when I was with her, but who wouldn’t think about having sex with their first love when they are a 16-year-old virgin? Plus, she was like a solid 9-10 in those days. When I met her, every other girl was irrelevant

    Now, I am 20, far happier and have met plenty of great girls far better than her. And these girls actually give a shit about my feelings and don’t wanna hurt me like this other one. So, fuck off you feminazi cunts, keep up the bullshit articles, they’re a good laugh. I respect women, but not feminists. They’re an absolute contradiction and complete jokes. Cunts. Good day.

  • Male and Female friends.

    These comments are the scariest things I have read in a long time! Including views that we only care about women’s freedom to fuck who they want. – Well yes! If you think they should fuck someone they do not want to – that is RAPE!
    Also “The reason i dont like the friend zone is because women only do that out of pity if you are only being cool with me outta sympathy because i like you yet you dont want anything more than friendship thats not true friendship an its just as wrong as a guy only wanting to be friends for sex which by the way thats not true about all nice guys nobody wants your pity just for you to simply help them with their needs an yes…. i am saying sex is a need the nice guy helps you with whatever”
    Because being ‘just’ friends is not true friendship unless you ‘help’ them with sexual ‘needs’. WTF?

    I do not understand why people do not get the fact that someone might not like you in a romantic way but does value you as a friend. If their is unrequited feelings that can be hard to deal with, but the person who does not feel the same way did nothing to you, and is not ‘stringing you along’ by being friends. They are not ‘keeping you around’ for when they are bored with other people. They do not want to date you and if you cannot be friends with them without thinking more will happen someday then you might have to break off the friendship for both of your benefits. They just actually like your platonic company as they do with other same or different gender friends. If this were not true then it goes along with the bullshit of ‘boys and girls can never be just friends’.

    A lot of people are getting bogged down over the ‘nice guy’ and ‘bad boy’ imagery – really what ‘nice guy’ means is just someone who has nothing obviously repulsive about them, and therefore no objective reason for the (usually) girl not to date them. Except the point is that you do not have to have anything wrong with you for someone to think they are incompatible with you romantically.
    The red herring of girls liking ‘bad guys’ more has nothing to do with it. They could just as likely date Nobel Prize winners but not like a regular ‘nice guy’ in a romantic way, this says nothing about the ‘nice guy’ apart from they are incompatible. It is difficult to watch someone you like go for people who you don’t think are worthy but it is no judgement on you, even if they weren’t going for ‘bad guys’ they STILL would not like you!

  • yaimnottellingyouwhoiam

    Ok after reading this article, I have a confession to make: I use to be a genuine nice guy that treated women with respect, I never got laid and couldn’t find a girlfriend if my life depended on it (literally).
    I broke down one day and decided not only to became a A-hole but F*cking evil! I mean like sociopathic evil. I became a high profile tax collector and became a heartless, cruel, sadistic bastard. (My favorite thing to do is go through obituaries and seize estates for back taxes hahah).
    I created a new mindset that “women are plentiful and replaceable and the opinion of just one isn’t worth a d*m”. Now guess what? it worked!! Hell I can’t believe how many girls I’m sleeping with (hell I just slept with this bi*tch tonight and kicked out into the cold without even saying goodnight) So would you explain this to me? do I like what I’ve become? HELL NO! but here’s the funny thing, I’m earning more, people respect and fear me, I’m getting laid, I’m doing so much better in life now that I’ve become this horrible person.
    Do women like guys like me? I know women say confidence is attractive but I don’t feel confident, I just don’t care about anyone else but me. I don’t give a Sh*t I seized a bank account of some delinquent tax payer a week before Christmas (that’s when everyone has money!) I don’t care I use and discard women left and right without any consideration whatsoever.
    When I try to be myself and not this cruel sadistic, evil tax man women are repulsed! “A nice, gentle man that cares? ewww get away from me creep!”
    So why? are you women just incompetent? seriously?

    • jm313

      Many woman sent Ted Bundy letters wanting to marry him.

  • john

    First, this entire article was written like she had a bee hive shoved in her panties. Relax lady.

    Getting to the point, the problem I have being put in a “friend zone” is when girls lead me on and try to use me for different things. You will gladly take the free dinner or drinks I buy you when we go on a date, but you really had no intention on having a real relationship with me. Be up front with people and you will hurt them less.

    This coming from a 5’8″ guy who isn’t fat but doesn’t have a 6-pack. Believe me, rejection from women is a big part of my life because I’m two inches too short and I don’t look like a model. I have grown to handle it, but at least tell me off the bat, not after the 3rd or 4th date.

  • the friend killer

    if the friedzone was real it would be a purgatory place. if someone didnt love you before chances are they wont love you later and in theory you will never leave the friendzone. so to all you asshole nice guys, move on your a wimp find someone else less attractive maybe or self concious that will worship you as much as you do them and make their life with you the best thing theyve ever had.

    • disqus_Yt9vnIF2R2

      Weak friend, very biased view you have, not very objective . . .

  • Yelo

    You misunderstand men’s feelings about the friendzone. It is not that guys expect sex for being nice. That is your bizarre interpretation. Rather, dudes find it illogical for women to say they want guys with X qualities which the dude possesses, yet they do not want the dude. In reality, X qualities are necessary but not sufficient. Yet this is not understood by guys or maybe not communicated by women. So guys think their possession of X qualities is why logically women should be attracted to them, and that women’s lack of attraction is because they’ve been illogically and summarily dismissed. It is a problem of miscommunication, not anyone’s fault.

  • Ali

    How can men like myself become genuine friends with women when we ultimately want to have sex with them? To me, this is the underlying message behind the criticisms of “friendzone”. For example, if I told my male friend, “nice haircut”, he knows that it is simply a friendly complement. But if I told my female ‘friend’, “nice haircut”, what I really mean is “your hair looks good enough to use as a handle for blowjobs”.

  • bieler

    For every guy who just wants to use a woman for sex, there is a gal who just wants to use a man for emotion and material gain. Just like the player knows how to manipulate a vulnerable woman into giving him her body, there is a clever female who knows how to manipulate a vulnerable man into giving her his attention and money.

    • disqus_Yt9vnIF2R2

      Yup!

  • Fuck Alisse Desrosiers

    Who gives a fuck what people do this lady is perpetually putting people on blast. Just a FYI lady douche nozzle. People only “hate” what they see in themselves.

  • Zoe Yates

    Thank you so so so so so so so so sooooooo much for this amazing article, even though I’m reading it YEARS later

  • GeneralButtMunch

    What if I’m into that?

  • baju batik

    why cant we togather?? hehehe lol

  • DrumminD21311

    I think the Friend Zone is real. I don’t understand the feminist backlash against it. I think the “Friend Zone” can be abused if thrown in a girl’s face to make her feel guilty, but I generally think their is a window of opportunity to put yourself in either the “romance” category or the “friend” category. If you’re shooting for the romance category and end up in the friend category, then you screwed up. You didn’t play the game right (and yes the game exists). Attraction can be created and it can be destroyed as a result of one’s behaviors. Attraction doesn’t depend on unknown factors that can’t be manipulated. Once you’re in the friend zone, you can get out, but you got to work really hard. I don’t understand how this concept is sexist unless it is abused and thrown in women’s faces. Women don’t make the rules, they just live by them. I don’t blame women for getting friend zoned, I blame myself.

  • lilbit

    Nice Guy: a man who thinks his emotional support has such higher value compared to a woman’s that the only thing she has of equal value to reciprocate in kind is sexual support…

  • jm313

    “Nice guys are arrogant, egotistical, selfish douche bags”

    HAHAHA! Your joking right? Do you realize these are actually the attributes of a bad boy. And you gender feminists are way too one-sided. You criticize men while ignoring the faults of woman. You barely ever look at anything from a males point of view.

  • Guest

    “Nice guys are arrogant, egotistical, selfish”

    HAHAHA! Your joking right? Do you realize these are actually the attributes of a bad boy. And you gender feminists are way too one-sided. You criticize men while ignoring the faults of woman. You barely ever look at anything from a males point of view.

    • disqus_Yt9vnIF2R2

      I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY!!!

  • jm313

    I agree. I use to be the nice guy I was friend zoned a lot due to low confidence and self-esteem and this article offends me. It make crazy generalizations. And how does the author not think the friend zone is real? The friend zone is mainstream most men and women talk about it.

  • jm313

    Are a lot of you gender feminists hardwired differently than the average women?

  • theworldinnit

    What about us women who don’t want to be with nice guys? It’s so boring and annoying. Do guys not realise that women are also put off by desperation and the full on approach. I want to be with normal men. Ones that are themselves and won’t agree with everything I say. Ones that won’t compliment me 24/7, that’s just annoying and embarrassing. In other words. A nice, mature man. Not a manchild.

    • disqus_Yt9vnIF2R2

      Go date some macho douchebags then, good for you . . .

  • Andrew

    This article sounds like some little child ranting.

    • disqus_Yt9vnIF2R2

      This article is inspired by passive-agressive women who are insulted when a man leaves them behind when they use the ‘can we just be friends?’ bullshit spiel. If he wants you and you reject him, don’t act surprised when he leaves you behind for girls who ARE interested in intimacy with him. Physical and emotional needs must be filled it’s instinct/human nature, Gilbert Blythe says it perfectly to Anne of Green Gables “Your friendship can’t satisfy me, (Anne). I want your love — and you tell me I can never have that”, for some reason some people (both genders) don’t understand this concept, SPEAK PLAINLY! Being apologetic about rejecting someone is insipid, if you don’t want them or feel attracted to said person, SIMPLY SAY NO!

  • God this is dumb…

  • Anonymous

    Once again guys should not offer their help and expect something in return. Ask a girl on the date if you have a romantic interest towards her. Then she will probably say no. Don’t disguise your intentions and then expect a woman to fall in love with you. You hide your feelings expecting her to make the first step? Once again if you do nice things for a woman that doesn’t mean she’s going to fall in love with you. When a woman tells you you’re “just friends” it means she doesn’t like your appearance but she Likes your personality. Sorry, but you cannot make yourself be physically attracted to someone regardless of their niceness. And that’s the way it works with both genders! Geez is it that hard to figure out?

    • John

      It really isn’t difficult to figure out but seeing how the whole “Nice Guy TM” thing seems to happen with younger guys the stereotype that “looks don’t mean much to women as long as you have a great personality” is most likely the starting cause of their frustration. Also women say they want a nice guy but that is so vague and so subjective that it means different things to different people. So yeah in the end it’s not difficult but the sooner a solution to these couple of things is found the sooner we can see less fake nice guys. The solution to the stereotype and the whole women want a nice guy isn’t that hard to figure out. Though the solution isn’t found in demonized genuine nice guys and phony nice guys alike.

  • Seth

    You know what would make all of this a lot more simple if people just said hey I want to have sex with you or hey I dont want to have sex with you. Then everyone can just move on!

    • disqus_Yt9vnIF2R2

      100% behind that, speak truthfully and plainly, no bullshit passive-agressive games . . .

  • Oliver

    well..I was a nice guy to this girl recently and friend zoned, rejected and all. that is why now I’m in between these posts. I see you are referring “nice guys” to the boys who act nice to get sex. well…I had my own opinion of who is the perfect girl for me and she is the one that is attractive of course and wise and have a good heart. I was looking for a girl like that in whole my life and never ever found (there was a time I believed such girls do not exist and concentrated on my other life). But one day I get to know the perfect girl who is I mentioned above. I was so afraid, i was tense around her because she was so valuable for me, I was afraid that I loose her, the one and only girl I ever came across in my life who is perfect for me. So unintentionally I became a nice guy for her. It was kind of doing it safe, being afraid of rejected, loosing her and all. yep….it is all about confidence, I was lack of it and paid the price. The only question i have is why can’t a girl think on a way like “this guy is trying so hard on me because he likes me a lot, I’m so valuable for him” instead thinking otherwise.

  • J

    Hi, i think this post was awesome. but I have something to add: First of, not all “Nice Guys” call the girls that don’t give them a chance bad names. Yes there are many nice guys out there that really don’t have a chance because they are “too nice”, and not bad boys, but they wouldn’t insult the girl because it is her choice after all to like a “bad boy” instead. I guess same way a lot of people on the world expects women to behave in a certain way, same can be said about men. A lot men that have more “feminin” behavior, such as being attentious, nice, sweet, etc, yes they get pushed away after a while by some women that finds this “behavior” weird for a male, since they expect the kind of “badass hero or womanizer” guy. Unfortunally that is the truth, I would never insult a woman for her choice, it is more of a cultural problem. Just please dont assume that all “nice guys” are insulting women like you think.
    Just sometime ago, i had an amazing girl friend. we only had friendship, and we both AGREED to be just friends. And I was fine with that, me and her always had fun, and I never pushed her to the next level or anything. It ended up with her ignoring me, and after a time she just tell me “i dont want a relationship, so godbye”. I was like “whut?, i never asked for a relationship, liked her a lot, but well, her choice”. It ended up she has an ex right after a while, he threatened to kill her, he hit her, and lied to her multiple times.
    same happened more than once, and also had a girl that once told me, “J, you are amazing, handsome, but you are too nice… i see you as friend only” I said ok no problem, she is now dating a new guy, and just 2 days ago he got arrested, and she is on facebook begging friends for help get money to pay his fine… so, it was not one, two, three times it happened. so what idea you guys want us “nice men” to have? that women like bad boys right, that is just logic. i would never insult a girl for her choice, but don’t tell me all nice guys just want lay with a women or insult women if they get rejected. it is not true.

    thank you.

  • disqus_Yt9vnIF2R2

    This is a load of horseshit, human nature doesn’t support this view that ‘Instinct is misogynistic?’ WTF! Go blow that out you asses ladies! Men AND Women reject each other all the time for petty reasons, to either gender, if you are rejected, pick yourself up and move along. And ladies don’t act bitter cause we don’t want your frienship like some weak-ass consolation prize, or participation medal. To quote Gilbert Blythe from the ‘Anne of Green Gables’ novels “Your friendship can’t satisfy me, (Anne). I want your love — and you tell me I can never have that” this is why passive-agressive ‘Can we just be friends?’ rejections are such bullshit! Just say NO ladies, spare us the bullshit pity!

  • Zach Johnston

    I too disbelieve in the friend zone, although I was somewhat surprised by your explanation. When you list “legitimate” reasons why women might not want to sleep with these nice guys (whom you apparently have a really big problem with) you are still supporting the tacit assumption that a woman must decide right away, the very night she meets a man, whether or not she’s going to have sex with him.
    I mean, what could possibly be more respectful than giving a woman the opportunity to sleep with you when she’s ready instead of throwing “game” at her until she feels pressured to now? You seem to think that the friend zone is real, I mean-when you say that men are deluding themselves by trying to wait it out you are simultaneously implying it’s existence and confirming the attributes commonly associated with it.
    I’m 30 and I’ve had three long term, live-in girlfriends all of whom started out as friends for as long as six months to a year before the relationship began. I wasn’t even trying to sleep with them at first I just wanted to hang out. In my experience, after a while you just want to hang out with that person all the time and the sex sort of naturally occurs. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had a few one night stands here and there, but the most success I’ve had with women (3-4yrs together with each) has been founded on trust and genuine enjoyment of each other’s company; two things that you can’t really determine about a person instantly. It has nothing to do with how “nice” I am.
    Consider for a moment the possibility that some men are also human beings who also do not exist simply to have sex. This social paradigm in which it is assumed that the “real” reason a guy wants to be your friend is because he wants to fuck you behooves neither gender in my opinion and results in a culture of superficial relationships where sexual attraction and intimacy are mutually exclusive.
    PS I think it’s perfectly acceptable for people to have casual sex with each other based on nothing but personal attraction and I am not, by pointing out that the expectation of this outcome can be frustrating, somehow endorsing slut-shaming

  • Yeah I’m frustrated

    Yeah, well fuck Wonder Woman too!

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  • Neon Purple

    It just feels like a self fulfilling prophecy, you “friend zone” some guys who aren’t looking at you as a “vending machine” but as a friend (some one they would love as a whole person [Mind, Body and Soul] and then you do this to them.

    It doesn’t make any logical sense.

  • Neon Purple

    Maybe this is the reason one of my best friends is a gal who only likes girls, the relationship is safe and I don’t get refused a fulfilling relationship based off of the fact I’m a “nice guy”. I mean a friendship with her based solely on the fact we relate to each other is great :) instead of being “friend zoned” because I’m a “nice guy”.

  • Neon Purple

    Also my “dark side” is wondering why if you won’t date my “light side” then why you are not dating him?

  • Neon Purple

    Besides, have any of you watched “Charmed”, there was one story arc where “the nice guy” Leo was put in stasis. That’s what being “friend zoned” is like, being put in stasis like Leo, because honestly, there comes a certain age when a woman realizes she likes nice guys. Maybe that is a subconscious effort by you gals to save a gal who you might want in the future :)

  • Nekko Mason Erickson
  • Mike

    Seriously, I was just trying to get help to let my friend know that she is dating assholes! But instead I get a complaint to me by this story. There are nice guys out there I’m one of them. But I’m not like that.

  • K

    First of all, stop lumping this into a woman hate category. Nobody wants to be just friends with somebody they are attracted to, plain and simple. Regardless of gender.

    Second, a man has the right to be bummed out over rejection, and is due respect when he at least isn’t befriending women just to have somebody to cry to about it, which is all the more reason men won’t settle for friendship; we don’t want to deal with your endless sob stories and controlling ways.

    Women are not victims in this, and if you don’t care about the guy complaining, then stop complaining about him. He doesn’t owe you anything.

    • SolutionRUs

      Your options are as follows:

      1) Be friends with the girl you find attractive, listen to her stories, and know that she considers you a good friend
      2) Refuse to listen to her stories unless she will date you, lose a friend, sit at home by yourself while she introduces her single female friends to guy friends who aren’t asses

  • Echo

    Here’s the problem: You women believe you are so superior, and are massive hypocrites about this. You preach that you want to be treated equal, but god forbid a man punches you back after you strike him for no sensible reason.

    You preach about equality, yet are in favor of affirmative action so long as you get elevated in favor of men.

    You preach that nobody should have the right to touch/mutilate your body [say, for instance, having ovaries removed for health reasons], but are perfectly fine with circumcision.

    Your hypocrisy stems from the fact that you don’t care about equality; you want *dominance*. But this is not satisfying to you if the man is already passive when trying to date you. No, you women prefer the challenge of the douche bag, the asshole. The guy who is more than willing to trample you for what they want. This challenge gives you the satisfaction, feeds your *delusion* that you are superior to men.

    There are literally two things women can naturally do that men can not; give birth, and breast feed; the latter of which has actually been rendered moot through commercial baby formula.

    Way to go, you are superior to men because of your exclusive role as a breeding tool. >.>

  • Josh

    This article wants me never want to be in a relationship again.

    -A Nice Guy

    • http://jaimegandarilla.tumblr.com/ Jaime Gandarilla

      Yes, it all about YOU. Fuck the women that are raped and killed because they didn’t give their bodies to a guy who turned out cray. No, you’re the real victim

  • Liam

    ***Before anybody tries to counter me with ‘You must be alone/a
    virgin/etc.’ I wanna say this; I *am* alone, because I learned that I
    don’t *need* a romantic partner in life. I am satisfied with playing
    spectator in this world, although I admit it also does leave me bitter
    to see more and more crap go on.*** I digress

    After venting with a rage-fueled comment, I’d like to voice my genuine opinion on the matter. Something I haven’t noticed people bring up is one topic: Media.

    Whether we want to admit it or not, the media has a huge impact on our perceptions. They commonly portray the nice guy vs jerk when it comes to women. They tend to do this in an attempt to teach the ‘nice guys’ to be patient and be themselves, not change themselves for the sake of getting with a girl. However, this not only tends to fall flat, but it actually encourages a man’s disillusionment with women.

    Media encourages ‘ideal’ body looks, ‘ideal’ partners, and yes, the ‘nice guy vs jackass’ complex.

    I admit, I am embittered by this dilemma and I do harbor the desire to act like the jerk to see just how many girls change their opinions on a dime, only to use it against them.

    There is a difference between wanting to do something and actually doing something.

  • Lboogie609

    The author of this is a dumb bitch who obviously friend-zoned more than a few guys and got her retarded self called out for it…. Then She tries to justify why she friend zones people and make excuses for why she’s not a cold hearted slut. Got news for ya miss….YOURE A WHORE AND U CANT WRITE FOR SHIT TOO.

    • http://jaimegandarilla.tumblr.com/ Jaime Gandarilla

      are you going to rape her now to teach her a lesson?

      • Anne Wellington

        Love it when the butthurt nice guys call women sluts for keeping their legs closed. Makes a ton of sense.

  • flight2q

    “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Who said that? Who could it possibly be? Was it, oh, I don’t know… Satan?

  • Sofiaroy

    If a so called nice guy or nice person does do that then they surely can’t be considered nice.

  • http://jaimegandarilla.tumblr.com/ Jaime Gandarilla

    Subtly telling men that women owe them their bodies is one of the biggest pillars of rape culture. awful

  • Vick Vinegar

    bun the rampant misandry in feminist articles like this. try putting yourself in the shoes of the unattractive guy. loneliness degradation and rejection is a tough life and articles like this only alienate them more

  • ran

    if women and men exist as TWO DIFFERENT SEXES to only be “friends” then why do they exist as two, not one sex?
    life is short. i would not waste my bioloical time on this earth being “friends” with women.
    truly, that kind of woman is to me “a cloud without rain”. looks promising, but it will bring me nothing. and my life will have been wasted on one, or more women who will never let me know the meaning of the two sexes.

  • Everett Herring

    Got put in the friend zone once. The poor girl has AIDS now. Really makes me sad that she made the choices she did.

  • Andrew

    Clap clap !!nice said.. I love this article too much…