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Feminspire | April 16, 2014

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I Can’t Leave My Vagina At Home: Why Don’t You Understand Rape Culture?

I Can’t Leave My Vagina At Home: Why Don’t You Understand Rape Culture?

Trigger Warning for discussions of rape.

Ok folks, here’s the thing: Someone is wrong on the internet.

Lots, really. Several, if we get right down to it, but I’m a busy gal and I’ve only got so much time. As such, let’s zero in on a Facebook conversation I watched go down just the other day. A friend of mine posted about CNN’s coverage of the Steubenville verdict, which I won’t recount here because if you don’t know it by now, you probably don’t own a computer. This was her take:

rape culture 1

Well said and good for her. Naturally, this was the first response:

rape culture

When my friend expressed hope he was kidding, he clarified:

rape culture

And finally, when called out on perpetuating rape culture, he had this charming tidbit to add:

rape culture

Mmmmmmk Sweetiekins…since you seem to be so very lost, allow me to break this down for you one asinine comment at a time.

1. “If laws are in place to protect the people, then people who are injured as a result of their breaking the law don’t get the same sympathy.”

A girl went to a party and got drunk. Tell me who she injured. Do not say the reputations of these boys. I want you to tell me EXACTLY WHO this girl PHYSICALLY INJURED as a result of her intoxication. Tell me.

Did she beat someone up? Did she hit people with sticks? SHE WAS UNCONSCIOUS. Was she drinking underage? Yes. Yes, she was. She got drunk and she passed out. And that should be the end of this story.

2. “When a drunk driver hits a telephone pole, does anyone sympathize with him?”

Okay, I want to make sure the sentiment of my next statement is very, very clear.

WHAT THE HOLY SHITTING FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY?

Reasons we get pissed off when drunk drivers hit telephone poles:
This person drank to excess and then got behind the wheel of a vehicle.
This person drank to excess and then put the lives of EVERYONE on the road in danger.
This person drank to excess and then possibly cut my phone service.
This person drank to excess and then made DECISIONS which affected his evening.

The drunk driver who hit a pole did not just drink to excess. That is not the end of the sentence. Were that the end of the sentence, he wouldn’t have hit the telephone pole. He would have woken up the next day, possibly with a permanent-marker penis on his face. Jane Doe drank to excess…and that’s the end of her sentence. She passed out. This story should have ended with a permanent-marker penis, at the very worst.

3. “…but she consensually broke the law to place herself in a situation she knew was risky.”

Do you think going to a party is risky, Sweetiekins? When you personally get ready for a party, do you think to yourself, “Oh no, I’m heading to the danger zone!”? Do you personally find drinking at a party to be a risky thing for you—specifically you, Sweetiekins—to do? No? So you don’t view a party as a place where you should constantly have to look over your shoulder and see who’s trying to attack you?

THEN WHY THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT HER TO?

4. “At least suspend her from school to send the message that underage drinking is illegal for a reason.”

O_o

“We’re proud of you for pressing charges against your rapists. There was almost certainly a lot of social and peer pressure not to press charges, but we think you make the right decision. We know the media has been tearing you apart and you must feel like three shades of crap right now, but about that minor drinking violation…”

Folks, this is how we make people afraid to come forward with rape charges. I’m not saying you should be able to get away with whatever you want because of it, but for crying out loud, underage drinking is a victimless crime. Literally the only reason anyone wants her to get hit with a punishment for it is because they want to find a way to make this her fault, too. And it’s just not.

5. “I don’t know if a ‘rape culture’ exists, but more problematic than that is this culture of ‘not taking responsibility for one’s actions.”

First let’s touch on this culture of “not taking responsibility for one’s actions.” I think your next line really brings your feelings on this into focus, so let’s look at it:

Rape victim: “I didn’t do anything wrong, the problem is the rape culture.”

Rapist: “I didn’t do anything wrong, the problem is the rape culture.”

Mmk, this tells me that you have no idea what rape culture is. Like, at all. No sarcasm. So let’s touch on it.

Rape culture is this, the world we live in, where all the questions focus on what the victim did to deserve her rape. It’s the culture where people are honestly responding to this trial with, “Those poor boys’ lives are ruined,” when the reason their lives are ruined is because they chose to commit rape.

Rape culture is the culture where most women who are raped don’t report it, specifically because they already know they abuse they’ll get. They know that it is them, the victims (and not the rapists), who will be torn apart and made to believe that whatever they did, be it have the gall to go out for a drink in the evening or the audacity to wear a skirt in public, is the reason that they deserved their rape.

And it’s just not ever true. It isn’t ever.

6. “Rapist: You did do something wrong and need to be punished.”

Hey! Yes! You got one right!

7. “Rape victim: You didn’t do anything wrong, but don’t blame a ‘rape culture’ for your stupidity and lack of foresight.”

Aaaaaand my sympathy for you is gone again. You had it for like, an eighth of a second there.

So really, explain this to me, Sweetiekins. Is this the “women should expect to be raped at all times” song? Cuz I gotta tell ya, I’ve heard it, and I really prefer Mumford & Sons. It just makes more sense to me.

Why should I spend every moment of my life expecting to be raped? Do you have any idea how exhausting that is? I mean, do you? It takes a lot of mental energy to spend all day thinking up exit strategies or figuring out how fast you can punch the guy on the bus next to you if he puts his hand on your leg. Know how I know? Cuz I do it every fucking day.

Seriously, do this for me: spend one day—just one day—keeping yourself ready for rape at all times. When you walk out the door, look around for strangers. If you see someone who looks iffy, cross the street, even if it takes longer. Keep your keys pressed through your fingers if you walk alone at night. Look all around you every few seconds. You passed some guy walking down the street? Turn around to make sure he’s not running up to attack you but look fucking nonchalant about it you don’t want to cause a scene. Wait, is he following you?? Speed up! Quick, you don’t want him to find out where you wor—oh, he turned the corner. Nevermind.

Talk to me again about foresight, Sweetiekins.

8. “Following your logic, when my $1000 bike was stolen over Spring Break when I had it locked in the racks instead of taking it inside, I did nothing to ask for it. I did ask for it.”

I. Can’t. Even.

You locked up your bike…your bike was stolen…and it was your fault because you didn’t lock it up more?

I just…I don’t even know what to do with that.

9. “Yes, there is a bike thief out there, but I am not going to detract from my ownership of the problem by saying, ‘Oh, the problem is a Bike-Stealing Culture.’”

I’m going to set aside the sociological points of actual crime culture here, because I feel that it gets away from the primary point I wish to make. You ready for this? Cuz I’m about to blow your mind.

The invasion of a woman’s body without her consent is not nor should it ever be compared to PETTY OR GRAND THEFT.

Did I really just have to write that sentence?

What, so I have be careful for having the nerve to walk about in public in blatant possession of a vagina? What am I supposed to do, Sweetiekins? Leave it at home? Lock it up? Leave your dick at home once in a while. It’s totally possible. There’s a song about it and everything, so it must be true.

Wake. Up. Rape isn’t theft. Sticking any of your appendages into any orifice of an unconscious person is not the same thing as lifting that same unconscious person’s wallet. If you don’t go to a party expecting to get raped, why the hell should I have to? If you don’t abstain from going out for a drink, why the hell should I have to? If you don’t arrange an escort to walk home in the dark after work, why the hell should I have to?

But if you won’t help break the cycle of rape culture, I guess that means that I have to.

Written by Sid
Reposted with permission from http://makemeasammich.org.

  • Gary

    Actually, even as a rather large man I do watch for iffy strangers on the street, I do always have an exit strategy, and I do squeeze my keys between my fingers walking alone at night.

    It’s called taking personal responsibility for my own safety, and women are just as capable of this as I am.

    • Andrea

      You have clearly missed the whole point of her post, sweetiekins.

      • Kilroy

        And how did he miss the point? And stop with the attempts to belittle someone with those “sweetiekins” comments. It’s childish.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jennifer-Elford/714525520 Jennifer Elford

          He isn’t worried about somebody forcing him into an alleyway or into the ground and forcing sex on him. He’s worried about having a few bucks taken away, maybe getting beat up. And no, unless it’s an extreme case, that is NOT as bad as being raped.
          Also, he clearly stated he’s ‘a rather large man’; a little bit different from a woman who is not as physically capable as him.

          • Lester Z

            It’s not a matter of “worse than / better than.” Assault and rape are both bad. The idea is responsibility. Take precautions. Be intelligent. Don’t do things that would increase your chances of being in danger without good reason.

          • http://twitter.com/cherryfizzy Geeky Girl Tiffany

            Okay so I know you probably don’t mean to say that assault is equal to rape, just more that the better/worse than is not the issue as much as taking precautions. Still, you should try to be more clear in your writing.

            “Don’t do things that would increase your chances of being in danger without good reason.” Herein lies the problem – it keeps sounding like you’re saying “women shouldn’t go out and party and drink, because that’s them taking precautions” when in fact, dudes wouldn’t have to do that – and that is the double standard and messed up. Clearly people of both genders shouldn’t go walking in an alleyway at night in a sketchy neighborhood with low police watch, the guy is worried he’s going to get stolen from, not raped, and that’s sort of the big difference in attitude. At the end of the day, you can get a wallet back, you can’t get unraped.

            At any point in time, you don’t have to wander around with your guard up “just in case” you might get raped, and we’re not talking back-alley situations.

            Part of it is a lack of empathy, if you really spent a day having to imagine all foreseeable situations in which you might get raped and then pre-plan how you might get out of them (because someone like you says “well you are responsible for not getting raped”), you’d get cranky too.

            You wake up, and have to make sure you’re not wearing any pajamas or anything revealing because apparently men are just monsters who can’t control themselves to not rape unless you, the responsible woman, make sure your body parts are covered or else you’re “asking for it.” Then you can finally go outside the 20 feet to get the mail, because hopefully you don’t have to worry about being raped, wearing jeans and a sweater.

            Then you go to the grocery store. You park, have your guard up, and make sure not to park too far in the back where there are no cars, and not next to any vans with sliding doors that can house someone who might want to grab you to rape you. You get into the store, hopefully do your thing, and on your way back from the store you have to keep your guard up to ensure that there aren’t any strange people around you who might knock you unconscious or stick you in the back of your car.

            You get in the car and lock the doors right away (just in case you didn’t have perfect 360 vision) and then have the little panic attack as you try to start your car to make sure that should someone not give a fuck and smash through your windows, you’re out of there in time. (Hell how many email warnings do you see of “women don’t wait around in your car in parking lots cause they can get you there too.”)

            Maybe you skip a stop sign as you’re exiting, but you didn’t realize it. So you have to pray that the police officer who’s pulling you over is a. actually a police officer who isn’t faking [which does happen, according to emails from grandma :-P ] and using it as a ruse to kidnap, rape, and kill you, or b. going to not give a fuck that he IS a police offer and rape you anyways because you won’t press charges, because again, he has that position of power. Lucky for you, he’s a normal police officer, you get a ticket, and drive home.

            Once you get back, and you don’t have a house/garage so you live in an apartment and park on the street. You look around, hopefully making sure no one “sketchy” is around, and then cautiously load up your groceries, again having to keep your guard up since you’re by your trunk and distracted trying to load groceries, it’s super easy to just hit you on the back of your head and stuff you in the trunk (which will again be construed as “your fault” if it DOES happen because “were your jeans too tight?” and “well why weren’t you paying attention to your surroundings?”) – so you keep your guard up loading groceries, close the trunk.

            Finally you make sure you have your keys out and ready, with the key to unlock the door launched and loaded in place. You don’t know if some guy could be lurking behind and ready (because again if you don’t pay attention it’s “your fault” so you ALWAYS have to pay attention) – you walk up the stairs to your apartment and hope that your neighbors (who you don’t really know) aren’t home or about to open the door, cause that neighbor could be a dude, alone, and as soon as you’re turned around opening the door, he can open his door and snatch you inside before you even grasp what’s happening.

            Then you get inside, and hopefully you’re safe. You lock the door, and hope that the lock is strong enough because if it’s not, if someone somehow breaks in, it’s because your locks weren’t strong enough and again it’s your fault.

            I mean this is waking up, getting the mail, and going grocery shopping. I didn’t even really mention how if it’s an empty day in the grocery story you still need to keep your guard up just in case someone wants to drag you to a back room.

            The worst part? Rape isn’t even done mostly by strangers, aquaintence rape is far more common so we’re not even allowed to relax around people who are supposed to be our friends, just. in. case.

            As an experiment I’d love if you took a video camera around and basically tried to record yourself every time you (as yourself) have to prepare to not get raped, and then again thinking as a woman, each time you had to prepare to not get raped.

          • Honestly

            I love this comment so hard.

          • Andrea

            So as the writer stated, because I have a vagina I have to live my life in fear and always be on watch for rapists. Do you realize how tiresome that can be? Oh, and then I will be accused of hating men and being a prude. I guess I would take that over being raped, but neither is an ideal way to live a life.

            The point, however, is that one could take all the precautions and be the most responsible person in the world and still be raped. You, as a rather large man, can be aware of surroundings and hold your keys through your fingers and still be assaulted or mugged. Not very likely, as you are a rather large man, but it’s still a possibility. And guess what? If you happened to be assaulted, the police aren’t going to ask you questions, like “Sir, were you holding your keys between your fingers? Did you take precautions?”

            Because crimes like rape or assault aren’t about what the victim did or did not do. They are about power and the one doing the assaulting having no sense of responsibility or respect towards others. A woman shouldn’t have to feel like she can’t go to a friend’s party and have a few drinks, because she’s afraid that someone will take advantage of the situation.

            How about the man take some responsibility in the situation and make sure he gets a clear, definitive yes before engaging in sexual activity. How simple would it be to ask, “are you absolutely sure you want to do this?” If she can’t give clear consent, or in the case of the Steubenville case can’t even talk, the dude leaves her alone.

  • Lester Z.

    I’m posting this comment with the full knowledge that it will probably be met with much negativity and ire given the nature of this website, but it reflects what I feel, so here goes.

    The guy has a point. Yeah, I said it. No matter how condescending you want to sound in your most, no matter how much you refer to him as “Sweetiekins,” I still believe the man has a point.

    Yes, rape culture exists. Yes, rapists are undoubtedly wrong, and rape is not something that should ever be disbelieved when initially reported. Yes, I say initially, because I’ve had a friend whose life has been completely destroyed at a false rape accusation. Outraged as you may be that I would insinuate such a thing is possible, they do exist, and please know that they are as equally fucked up as rape itself.

    The original posted of those comments you so charmingly addressed has a point, mostly on the part about taking responsibility. Skipping over the point that she went to a part and willingly got drunk, why is it that when a man and a woman both consume dangerous levels of intoxicants, it is only the man’s fault?

    Women shouldn’t have to walk around in constant fear of rape, I agree. Women also shouldn’t court danger when they are fully aware exists, and be completely blameless afterward. This isn’t about shifting blame off the man, it’s about helping other women avoid such situations. Going to a party and getting drunk, forget the underage or whatever aspect of it, isn’t exactly the best way to be safe, nor is it even a necessary part of day to day life.

    I’m not about victim shaming or blaming, but I’m about taking responsibility for your actions. Rapists aren’t right, but that doesn’t mean the victim had no part in placing herself in a dangerous situation. If we’re talking gender equality, I fully believe that women have equal common sense, intelligence, and decision making skills as men, so why is it that men are expected to be responsible and women aren’t?

    Reply as you will. Polarized arguments on the internet don’t lead to constructive resolutions, and people generally don’t want to see a middle ground. Just don’t call me Sweetiekins, or my girlfriend will get jealous :(

    • Kel

      I think the main thing here is that there is no law against “courting danger.” Nor should there be! Anyone should be allowed to get drunk, or walk in a sketchy neighborhood, or live on the “wild side” and they will not have broken any laws – until they do something wrong. Rape is wrong.

      I don’t think the issue should be telling people to live more conservatively.

      Getting drunk is a recreational activity that may or may not be dangerous to the individual partaking. However, there are numerous other recreational activities (mountain climbing, etc.) that are also dangerous – but do not get a similar he/she was “asking for it” response.

      • Lester Z

        There is no law against it. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a common sense factor to it. Yes, you can get drunk, or walk in a sketchy neighborhood, or live on the “wild side.” Is that always smart? No. Rape is wrong, of course, but my argument is mainly against people who say that a woman can do “absolutely nothing” to decrease their chances of being raped. Your examples, do, in fact increase your chances of getting raped. It’s not the same as mountain climbing at all.

        • Simplicity

          You are missing the point. The point is that blaming the victim at all, putting any responsibility on her assumes two things. First, she must be cautious of rape at all time, and second, since she is cautious of rape at all times, it means the danger is omnipresent, which means that men can rape her at any time.
          It’s offensive to women, because you are suggesting they have power over avoiding rape, which is inescapable And then you accuse all men of being rapists.
          Rapists can be absolutely anyone. And I don’t think it’s fair for you to accuse anyone of being responsible for a crime against them. I know how unavoidable sexual harassment is, and it paints a picture for how easy rape could have been in those circumstances. I’ve been sexually harassed at school, at work, on the street, at a party, at a friend’s house, in a public park, in a store. So where the hell am I supposed to go to feel safe? If any of those situations escalated to rape, I’m sure you would find some way to blame me. But the thing is you have to realize that I am never welcoming sexually assault. Never. So it’s not my fault, it’s not my responsibility. Men should understand to respect women. Take no for an answer. Don’t approach women on the street. Don’t say creepy things. And learn what consent is.
          It’s that simple.

    • http://allisongrayteetsel.com/ Allison Gray Teetsel

      “Skipping over the point that she went to a part and willingly got drunk, why is it that when a man and a woman both consume dangerous levels of intoxicants, it is only the man’s fault?”

      Uhm…I don’t think anyone has said that…at least not in the article above that I just read. When a person is under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol, they are unable to give consent. Period. That goes both ways, regardless of sex, gender, or anything else. Having sex with a person who is unconscious is *always* rape, regardless of whether they’re a guy or a girl (or whether you’re a guy or a girl). Having sex with someone whose judgement is impaired should be considered the same way. If you engage in sexual conduct with someone who is drunk or high and it *doesn’t* result in rape charges, that’s because the person didn’t press charges, NOT because they didn’t have grounds to. Because, as I’ve stated above, being under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol renders a person unable to give consent.

      “Rapists aren’t right, but that doesn’t mean the victim had no part in placing herself in a dangerous situation.”
      What, exactly, is inherently dangerous about going to a party and getting drunk? Had the victim been a male instead of a female, would you hold him partially responsible for the rape that occurred? (I’m genuinely asking, no snark intended).

      I think what bothers me about the whole “personal responsibility” angle is the fact that it’s largely irrelevant when it comes to rape. You can do absolutely everything “right”. You can do literally everything in your power to protect yourself, and still be vulnerable to rape. The idea that certain clothing or activities make a woman more vulnerable to rape is a myth. I’m no more or less likely to be raped walking down the street alone than I am on a crowded bus (don’t believe me? Check the news.). A person can only control his/her own actions. Drinking to excess very well may be irresponsible behavior, but NOT because it opens up the possibility of rape. If you’d said it’s irresponsible because she could have choked on her own vomit, or passed out and hit her head, or something like that, we might be on the same page…but holding this woman partially responsible for the rape committed against her? No. There’s no such thing as an invitation to rape. The sooner we, as a society, get that through our thick heads, the better.

      • Lester Z

        Precisely. Unable to give consent. Therefore, if a girl does not say no during the process, and both parties were intoxicated (and therefore incapable of making decisions), the fault is both the man and the woman’s, as neither of them were capable of making intelligent decisions.

        No, it’s ridiculous to state that you’re always equally likely to get raped regardless of what you’re doing. Going to a party, where many people are generally looking for hookups and more intimate fun, is not the same going to somewhere like a grocery store. If you go to a party, get drunk, and pass out, you are far more likely to get raped than if you’re walking around in said grocery store, sober, and not passed out.

        The woman is responsible for her own safety. In an ideal world, perhaps she shouldn’t have to watch her back. This isn’t an ideal world. Therefore, we shouldn’t be telling women they can’t do anything to decrease their chances of being raped. They can, and it starts with personal responsibility.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1358074093 Chris Allen

          TRIGGER WARNING FOR VICTIMS: This post has some explicit language in places that might trigger a victim’s memories or reactions.

          You *think* you know about rape, Lester. You don’t. You really really don’t.

          A. Only 2-8% of the rape charges are false, yet a great many people still cling to the notion that 50% of them are false.

          B. Out of every 100 rapes, only 46 get reported. Of those, only 12 lead to an arrest. Of those, only 9 get prosecuted. Of those, only about 1 out of 4 leads to a felony conviction and incarceration.

          Which means, for every 100 rapes, only about 3 rapists actually are convicted and incarcerated—THE OTHER 97 WALK FREE.

          (Figures from RAINN’s (Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network) analysis of the most recent data from the Justice Department.)

          C. The vast majority of rapes are NOT “stranger rapes”—they’re rapes committed by someone known to (and usually trusted by) the victim… yet we continue to frame this issue by “stranger rapes”, as you did above by comparing grocery store rape vs. party rape.

          Why not be more accurate with the comparison, and say what’s really going on? The reality is, we don’t *condone* rape in grocery stores—so a man who wants to rape doesn’t attempt it there, because he knows (because it isn’t condoned) someone will at the very least call the police, and at most, might actually attempt to fight him in the woman’s defense. We *do* condone rape on dates, rape at parties, etc. because we insist that a woman is safer in a grocery store than at a party or on a date. WHY? Because we hold a woman raped in a non-condoned place, or under non-condoned conditions, etc. as BLAMELESS—but stick that same woman and rapist at a party and “she was going to a dangerous place and should have known better.” If she was falling down drunk, or passed out, in the grocery store—does that mean if the man rapes her there, that she was “partially responsible, because she ‘let herself’ get into that state”?

          —Oh, and by the way, there’s assertions that the Steubenville victim was drugged with a date rape drug, not drunk to passing out. Unfortunately, there’s all kinds of *documented* corruption in the Steubenville Police Department (including them being censured by the Justice Dept. for past violations, infractions, and issues, some of which included sexual harassment and even allegations of rape against police officers)… so no official investigation was done into the allegations that she was incapacitated by the boys giving her a date rape drug.—

          Now it doesn’t matter one iota whether the Steubenville Jane Doe victim drank to passing out, or if she was slipped this drug—with the sole exception that had they tested and found she was drugged, that’s proof of premeditated intent to rape her (which *can* help get a conviction, given how our court system treats rape). The point is, too many men feel free to assume “This woman is passed out—I’ll make them my new sex toy!” whenever they are in *any* place or time that they *know* society has deemed “condoned” for rape to occur; that they can successfully shift some or all of the blame onto the victim—whether it’s by her clothing, the location, her being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, the time of day, the rapist’s relationship to the victim, etc.

          Let’s play Pretend for a moment… and if trying to imagine women as the dominant gender as I’ve outlined below doesn’t really convey it to you, then try pretending it’s other *men* doing things to you, and see how it makes you feel.

          Let’s pretend that men get raped at the rate ranging from 1 out of 5 to 1 out of 3, depending on certain factors, over their lifetimes—and remembering that many of those victims will suffer more than one rape in their lifetime… and women *don’t* get raped at those rates, and women are overwhelmingly the ones who are doing the raping (let’s assume in this that “unwanted anal penetration with a body part or object” is considered rape, as well as “unwanted and forced coitus”).

          Let’s pretend that men get raped at parties, on dates, in their homes, in bars, in parking lots, in supply rooms, on campus, by coworkers, by girlfriends, by wives, by mothers and step-mothers, aunts and grandmothers, neighbors and teachers and bosses, co-workers and coaches and ministers… basically, that the women doing the raping come from all professions/all types of relations to the victim, with maybe only 1 in 10 being a total stranger jumping out of the bushes to rape you.

          Let’s pretend that nearly 100% of men experience street harassment, casual harassment, women grinding their genitals into men’s butts on crowded trains, women copping feels of your penis (or poking at your butt-crack with a finger) in line or while dancing. Let’s pretend that when boys start growing secondary sexual characteristics like facial hair, body hair, and larger penis size, girls around you continually eye you lasciviously, that they stare at your crotch or your butt, joke to their friends with suppositions about the size of your penis and testicles or the relative tightness of your anus, guesses about what it might be like to bed you. Let’s pretend even grown women do this on occasion. Let’s pretend, before you turn 18, that you (and a vast majority of your fellows) have experienced at least one unwanted groping of your ‘package’ or someone doing as much of a “poke through” your clothing to your anus as they can.

          Let’s pretend that you’re continually bombarded by media, by your culture, and by people in your life with the idea that your primary value isn’t your intelligence, your skills, your gifts or what you do—but rather, it’s how you look, how handsome (or not) that you are, how attractive you are. Let’s pretend that you’re encouraged to obsess on your physical appearance ***and find it wanting/lacking*** by an entire industry of advertisers and companies who want to sell you products and services that are sure to remedy your lack. Let’s pretend that since society has beaten it into your brain, by 1001 daily messages obvious and subtle, that your most important and defining characteristic is how attractive you are. (Are we getting to the point yet that you’re starting to see yourself more as an object, and that society endorses this and raises you with the idea that you must look to *others* judgement for your value, and that this judgement centers around your body, your appearance, and your attractiveness—ESPECIALLY your attractiveness to women?)

          Let’s pretend that when you say something, the validity of what you say gets automatically downgraded by listeners because of your gender, blamed on your male hormones, blamed on a million and one “reasons” that all come back to “you’re a man, so you can’t be an authority on that” or “but that person you’re arguing with is a woman, therefore she is better informed and just knows more—she’s got more authority than you.”

          Let’s pretend that this lack of validity given to you, what you think, what you say, gets doubled up with you seeing men who are assertive in their opinions, in protecting themselves by telling women “NO” are labeled “antisocial nerdy assholes” for doing it. Let’s pretend that all that gets further layered by how you see men who are victims of harassment and of rape being abused, bullied, harassed, and in general, BLAMED AND NOT BELIEVED by a great number of women, and quite a few men around them and in society—sometimes even in their own families—and definitely in the court cases when a man found the courage to report to police that “this woman tied up my penis to make it erect and then rode it for hours, and then she repeatedly penetrated my anus—she raped me!”

          Let’s pretend that in your world, “God” in the major religions is a “She”, nearly all the famous inventors and scientists and adventurers and politicians and leaders are women—these are the majority of the role models in your world—the default for “leader” is “female.” The vast majority of role models put forth to YOU are sexy male actors, sexy male models, singers, etc. Again, the bulk of men who are presented to you as “successful, famous, approved by society” are men who’ve succeeded in being seen as uber-attractive. Oh yes, of course they have other skills—acting, singing, etc.—but when it comes time for the starring female and starring male in “The Avengers” to do a press conference, the woman gets asked about the complexity of her character’s development… and the man gets asked if he had to go on a special salad diet to fit into his skin-tight leather body suit.

          So in our “Let’s Pretend” world, this is what you grow up with… and, you grow up with people who love you, people in your town, and your society telling you:

          “Be safe! Don’t do this, or you might get raped! Watch over your shoulder! Do this, and do that, if you walk onto the street! Watch out for strange women! Time of day, light and shadow is either your enemy or your friend! Beware of deserted places! Carry something to fight with—if you don’t have it, it’s your fault! Check and re-check people you know—especially your dates—don’t trust too soon, don’t be alone with them too soon, don’t go to their apartment or your home or parking in a car too soon (but it’s up to you to figure out what “too soon” actually means)—and oh, by the way, don’t forget about that serial rapist killer who always appeared to be such a nice woman, who always fooled even people’s parents and the victim’s entire town!”

          And yet more from the world, to you:

          “Don’t do anything to draw the attention of a rapist—and oh, here’s a list of those things, starting with what you wear… but of course, we can’t help the fact that men have been raped in all kinds of clothing; still, if *we* think it was ‘revealing and sexy’ then it must be an invitation on your part to get raped—so don’t be stupid and wear those clothes! Unless, of course, you’re trying to live up to what we want you to be: sexy, attractive, and making the most of how you look. Okay, look, really, what we really want from you is for you to look attractive all the time (remember, that’s your primary value to us)—just don’t do it around rapists, m’kay?”

          So, this is your world, this is your life.

          Then you look at all the women around you—half the population—and you realize, THEY aren’t being told those things. THEY aren’t being raised to be afraid of their own shadow, or any other shadows… THEY aren’t being valued and judged like you are with appearance as their primary value, THEY aren’t being “downgraded” in their thoughts and words and authority like YOU are…and you start to wonder, WHY? How is it fair that you were raised in an atmosphere of fear and they weren’t? Why are you getting devalued and invalidated and denied, and judged on your appearance, and they aren’t? Why does the world treat you differently?

          The world replies, “Because YOUR gender is routinely victimized. It’s your job to be afraid in order to protect yourself. It’s your job to be what we say you must be or we will stomp you flat. You were made to be this way. This is the natural order. This is just how it is, and no one can change it, so YOU have to ‘adjust’ to it.”

          You ask, “But why is it my job to ‘protect myself’ when all it does is let YOU blame ME for getting raped, and takes the blame or part of the blame off this person who decided to rape me? Why is it “my fault, my lack of preparedness” if it happens at a party, but if it happens at the supermarket, THEN I’m ‘the victim’? If it was on a date it’s partly my fault—I encouraged it, or I was stupid, etc…. but if it happens when I’m in the hospital in a coma, *then* I’m legitimately ‘a victim’? If I’m a handsome young man, then it’s MY fault—but if I’m an 80 year old grandpa then it’s okay, because of course 80 year old grandpas aren’t sexy and enticing, so it couldn’t possibly be “my fault” and thus I *do* get to be ‘the victim’? If I’m wearing hot pants or a Speedo, it’s my fault—but if I was wearing a snow suit and a ski mask, *then* it counts as rape?”

          And the world says, “Yes. That’s about the size of it. Sucks, doesn’t it? But that’s just how it is, so suck it up and quit griping, I’m tired of hearing all you men WHINE about it.”

          What would you say to all that, Lester? I know what I say: I say, “NO. It’s like that because we LET it be like that. Time to change.”

          • Lester Z.

            I’m very impressed by your writing, and it’s great that you feel so strongly about the issue that you would devote such a long post to it.

            That being said, please understand that I’m not saying that we should standby the status quo. Far from it. What I am saying is that we should address both sides of the issue. People who objectify women are scumbags, and that’s the truth. We should definitely be proactive about changing our society, and I’m never saying that it’s okay to rape under any situation whatsoever. What I am saying is that I care about the women in my life, and I care about women in general, and I care about the issue. Scumbags will always exist, regardless of what you do, how much you discuss, or try to change the old ways of patriarchy. You can tell people not to rape, not to murder, not to steal, but believing those won’t happen is naive and ridiculous. Women should be equal to men, and through that they should also be responsible. Not limited, not prevented from expressing themselves, but responsible so as to lessen the chances of being met with rape.

        • http://www.facebook.com/angela.wilsonjahnel Angela Wilson Jahnel

          Lester Z, women don’t just get raped when they get drunk at parties. They can have a stranger slip drugs into their lemonade or tea when they are eating out, they can be raped in public on a bus, in a car, or even on the side of the street or parking lots in broad daylight (most people won’t report it because they don’t want to get involved), and I’m sure there are women out there that have been raped in grocery stores.

          You truly have no idea what it’s like to spend your life constantly on guard against possible rapists. The article above describes it very well. When was the last time you had to consider possible rape situations when looking for a job? “If I take that job as a pizza delivery driver, I might get pulled into a house and raped.” “If I work the evening shift at this store, I will have to walk to my car in the dark parking lot. I could get raped.” How many times have you thought about that when applying for a job? I bet the answer is NEVER! Women have to do this all the time, just so we can hopefully be safe.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jennifer-Elford/714525520 Jennifer Elford

      In this case with Steubenville, the boys were completely at fault. If she had gotten drunk at home, she would not have gotten raped. If she was with close friends who genuinely cared about her and her safety, she would not have gotten raped. Those boys were sober enough to know exactly what they were doing, as evidence by their discussions after the fact and the video footage taken during her assault. They clearly had the capacity for committing this crime, and would have done so with anybody who couldn’t say no. Maybe if they were completely wasted you could have a point, but the fact is we should not assume that men will rape anybody the moment that person is unable to give consent or unable to fight back. Men’s natural state is not a rapist. We shouldn’t tell them that it is, and as such, that it’s okay if they rape somebody who is drunk or otherwise incapacitated, because the victim is clearly at fault for leaving her bike not locked up enough.

    • http://thesecretliberalagenda.com/ Lindsey Weedston

      “Outraged as you may be that I would insinuate such a thing is possible, they do exist, and please know that they are as equally fucked up as rape itself.”

      I’m sorry. Wat.

      No. Absolutely not. Being falsely accused of rape and having your reputation ruined is terrible, no doubt. It has absolutely no comparison to having your body violated. It is completely offensive to suggest that a false accusation is as bad as rape. To do so diminishes the experience of people who have been wounded in a way you cannot possibly comprehend.

      Think before you type.

      • Lester Z.

        I am indeed thinking before I type, and I still stand by what I said. I’m not saying rape isn’t fucked up, far from it. I’m saying that being falsely accused, having everyone condemn you for something that was not your fault, having to permanently register a sex offender, having to tell everyone that you are a “sex offender” and thus destroying a large part of your chances to ever foster any meaningful relationships with anyone gain are all physical and mental hurdles that these people deal with.

        I believe of your argument stems that rape destroys the woman, mentally and physically, as there are many (and completely unjust) cases in which she is mocked, or shamed, or disbelieved. It’s the same idea for a falsely accused man, on the other side of the spectrum.

        I understand how emotional rape makes people, and for a very good reason. As I mentioned before, I’ve had a friend who’s been falsely accused, lost his job, his wife, grown depressed, started on medication, and had his life turned upside down. Is that not incredibly similar to the situation of a rape victim? I’m trying to stay moderate, and rather than being completely ridiculous and saying something like “RAPE DOESN’T EXIST,” I only wish to present more than one view of this complex situation.

        • patience

          Knowing a person who has been falsely accused of sexual assault and witnessing a portion of the results of the accusation from the outside looking in is not at all the same as experiencing that circumstance yourself.You are speaking from a place of sympathy, not experience. I assume, based on your previous words, that you have also have no experience as a victim of rape. While it is good that you attempt to sympathize with this person from whom you’ve gathered your observations, it is very, very ignorant for you to equate the two circumstances, and so tenaciously, using a single first-hand observation and no real experiences of your own.

        • http://thesecretliberalagenda.com/ Lindsey Weedston

          You’re missing a huge part of what rape victims experience. The actual rape. It’s not only terrible beyond imagination in the moment, but the memory stays with the victims. The rape in itself, not just the status as a rape victim, affects their lives. They have to deal with the fact that at any moment, a few words or an action by an individual, a scene on TV or a movie, an article, picture or thoughtless comment on the Internet can bring that whole event rushing back, as though it just happened. They have to relive it again and again. You cannot possibly understand the intense psychological pain that comes along with it. So while the additional effects of the rape are similar, including harassment, being ostracized, having to move, getting depressed, these are secondary to the actual event and the memories of the event. It’s so deeply traumatizing that no trauma can measure up. Certainly not the trauma of being accused of a crime.

          Being raped does not destroy the victim, nor does being accused of rape destroy the accused. They are still people, though wounded, shattered, and left to pick up the pieces of their life with little sympathy from the world at large. But they are not similar, they are not comparable in any way.

  • LZ

    Posted a rather detailed response to this article, and it seems to have been deleted. Hmm. I wonder why…?

    • Lester Z.

      Never mind, just some slight delay. I’d appreciate a response to my prior comment though

  • Meg

    so much sass. love it!

  • Lester Z

    If only it were so simple. As an example: Man and woman go to a party. Both get incredibly drunk. Man and woman go home together, start getting intimate, end up having sex. Day after, woman realizes she was incredibly drunk, calls rape. Is it rape? Yes. Is it both their faults? Also yes.

    I’m not referring specifically to the Steubenville incident. I’m trying to point out this isn’t a black and white issue.

    • Rosie

      In the senario you give, you’re right, it isn’t a black and white issue, provided the woman gave FULL consent whilst drunk. If so, then even if she regretted it afterwards, she is still partially responsible because she made a DECISION, even though that decision was made whilst intoxicated. (because we are still responsible for decisions that we make, even when we are intoxicated.)

      But in the Steubenville incident, it is NOT a black and white issue. The girl did NOT make a decision. She was unable to because she was unconscious. And no decision = no responsibility. She is perhaps responsible for making the decision to drink herself unconscious (if we assume that a 15 year old, with not much drinking experience, can even recognise when she has had too much) but that is where her responsibility ends. She cannot be held partially responsible for her rape, because she did not MAKE A DECISION to be raped.

  • Cecil D.

    I feel sorry for Lester’s girlfriend. She’s probably a dumb ass for being with him though.

    • Lester Z.

      I don’t really know what to say when you choose to insult me and my personal life. You can disagree with me, and you can give reasons why. You aren’t doing the women you’re arguing for a favor simply by hurtling ad hominem attacks at me and the people around me.

  • DLZ

    Agreed. I once hooked up with a chick at a party after we had both gotten really drunk. When I woke up the next day, I realized it was rape…

    It took a really long time, but I was finally able to get her charged. She didn’t do jail time, sadly, but she did have to register as a sex offender. I felt at least a little better about it after.

  • Joanne Grady

    If you’ve made it all the way to bed with a girl, and then on the next day she decides you’re ugly and regrets the fact that her friends saw her going home with you, and now resents having sex with you in the first place, it is not in her right to accuse you of “rape” because she feels as though her social status has been pillaged.

    This is equivalent to accusing a woman with whom you aren’t entirely fond of rape because she gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby and subsequently pillage you of the better half of your financial resources.

    The larger portion of rape accusations end up merely being consensual sexual regrets. The whole “victim blaming culture” is a straw man myth designed by feminists to give them something tangible to associate their unsubstantiated and threadbare political ideologies. The rape that you’re accusing everyone of in this article doesn’t actually happen and in real life nobody blames rape victims for dressing slutty. If there’s any victim shaming at all, it’s directed to slutty looking girls who actually endorse their sexuality consensually, but then later regret their actions for one reason or another and subsequently lie about being raped. That’s all there is too it really.

    Real rapists are pathological sociopaths. Real rapists scour the night dressed in masks, equipped with deadly weapons. Real rapists are typically creepy uncles, thrice removed who abuse the vulnerable younger females of their family. Real rapists are straight jacked out of their minds. The “rapes” that SlutWalks globally address are fictions.

  • Jackson

    In response to the men who have commented so far saying that its partially a woman’s fault if she is raped; As a man I am so sick of other men characterizing my gender as incapable of controlling themselves around women. No matter if it is a grocery store, crowded bus, college party or dark alley (which is totally a myth most rapes are committed by an acquaintance of the victim) men should not rape! We don’t need to live in an ideal world to do this either. To assert that women are at fault for putting themselves in a dangerous situation is to assert that dangerous situations are inevitable. Which in turn is to assert that men are incapable of controlling themselves under the influence of alcohol, or when a woman is wearing revealing clothing (two common rape excuses). Are you kidding me?!? Do you really, as a man, believe that?? Can you not control yourself? Stop apologizing for other rapists. Which is what you’re doing when you even partially blame the victim. Acknowledging that the rapist was wrong is not enough, you have to acknowledge his 100% culpability. Every man has the capability to control themselves and make their own decisions. Nothing about being a man made those young men in Stuebenville rape that girl. Being a man did not cause those 4 men to rape Rehtaeh Parsons and then publicly shame her. We as men are not genetically disposed to rape and I as a man take offense when you suggest that notion is true!!

    You know what did allow those men to commit such unconscionable acts? Rape Culture! These men felt entitled to do whatever they wanted to those girls because they viewed them as less than human. Rape culture teaches men from a young age that women “want” or “deserve” to be raped if they put themselves in certain situations. And this doesn’t come from nothing. It comes from men like you blaming the victim. Young men are reinforced by these messages and continue to perpetuate this harmful culture. And to the guy that posted about your friend having his life ruined by a false rape accusation? That is by far the exception. And it sucks that, that happened but you know what? 1 in 4 women will be the victim of a sexual assault in her lifetime. And many who do work with sexual assault survivors estimate that 1 in 4 is a conservative number. So the next time you feel bad for your friend think about the closest 4 women in your life and imagine that everyday they have to wake up as a survivor. And then realize that every time you blame a victim for getting raped or assaulted you are contributing to the culture that allows this to happen.

    I’ll close with this. Men I expect better from you. Rape or sexual assault is not an individual act of violence. It is part of a culture, a culture that is perpetuated by rape apologists and victim blamers like you. We as men must take responsibility for our brothers actions and actively work to make the world a safer place.

    • Blueathena623

      Bravo, well said!

    • Lester Z.

      I’m tired of having to address this, but here it is. Are men responsible when they rape? Yes. Is what drives them to rape solely rape culture? No. I am not saying it’s “okay” to rape, and I doubt the people who believe that are in the majority. Neither is it okay to kill, or steal, but we don’t hear about “murder culture” or “stealing culture.” These things will occur no matter what, and if you’ve found a way to eliminate wrongdoing from our world, I’ll admit I’d be a little upset if you haven’t shared it with the rest of us. 100% culpability for the man under any circumstances is ridiculous and extreme. As I’ve presented before, if both man and woman are intoxicated and have sex, neither are capable of making decisions, yet both of them are still responsible for their actions.

      It’s admirable that you’re a man who stands up for women, and it’s far better than a man who completely objectifies women. Please understand, however, that the best result for every party as a whole is equality, which doesn’t only mean rights, but also responsibility.

    • Anon

      I love you

    • http://www.facebook.com/angela.wilsonjahnel Angela Wilson Jahnel

      So wonderfully stated! You are my hero.

  • Lester Z.

    It’s very admirable how strongly you feel about standing up for your female friends. It’s a very wonderful thing. However, randomly insulting me, and other people who are trying to have a discussion, are not conducive to any sort of constructive end. As much as you probably think I’m some creepy man who thinks rape is perfectly okay, I’m not. That reality only exists to you and perhaps a few others. A large part of the reason for why I still comment despite the consistent verbal abuse is because I’m trying to ensure that people who read this article think about multiple things besides what the author puts forth

  • Lester Z.

    I’m not saying we shouldn’t trying to stop men from raping. That’s ridiculous. I’m saying that women should try to avoid unnecessarily dangerous situations right now, because what the world should be and what the world currently is are two very different things.

    Many things are wrong. Killing is wrong, stealing is wrong. There will always be people who don’t care about anything but themselves, and rapists are included in that category. Why is it not possible to encourage talks about rape to try and diminish its frequency, but also try and help women avoid situations in which it’s more likely to happen. I’m not saying women shouldn’t be able to dress how they want, or do what they want (within reason). I’m saying that a combination of factors makes it more >likely< for a woman to be raped.

    • Jessica

      Because its a lie. In this current society every situation is potentially dangerous. There is no way to protect yourself from getting raped. Women who don’t go to parties get raped just as much as women who do. Most rapes are not stranger rapes or rapes done because someone was intoxicated. Since most rapes are acquaintance rapes then you are not more likely to be raped because of being drunk or how they dress. Your whole argument is mute because of that point.

      You are getting so much opposition because you clearly don’t understand that. Rape is not more likely to happen in so called dangerous situations. Most rapes are committed by people that you trust. Most rapes can’t be avoided. I guess unless you are a complete recluse in an armored house. Even then there is still a chance.

      You can’t seem to understand that. You are still clinging to the stranger danger stuff many of us were taught as children. It is understandable that you would cling to that because you probably can’t stand the idea that the women you care about are vulnerable. You want there to be a way that they can protect themselves. The fact is that a woman can do everything right and still get raped and that that is a far more likely scenario. There are techniques to help lessen the chances of stranger assaults, those techniques don’t cover the majority of these crimes though. Since most rapes are done by friends and family, your techniques to lessen rape do not apply.

      Let me say this again in case I’m not being understood. Most rapes are committed by someone that was part of the victim’s life and that they trusted. Very few rapes are committed because the victim was drunk at a party or other similar scenario.

      I hope you now understand the problem with your argument and the so-called logic of the guy that this article was talking about. Maybe we should get back to talking about how we can educate people about what rape culture really is and what rape really is. What are your suggestions about diminish the frequency of acquaintance rape? Since the vast majority of rapes are acquaintance rapes, it seems far more pertinent to talk about that. Don’t you agree?

  • Lester Z.

    I need to clarify because I’m not trying to address one specific incident. I’m trying to address rape as a whole, the arguments being presented, and my views on it.

  • Lester Z.

    I’m very sorry that because I don’t completely agree with you, that I’m automatically an idiot. Let me clarify though, because you seem to have (purposely or not) taken and twisted a few of my words.

    I do not think a woman’s default setting is yes. Women do not have default settings, they are people, equal to men, who are fully capable of making decisions, having opinions, and basically everything human beings can do. My argument is that BOTH the man and the woman are intoxicated. NEITHER are capable of making rational judgments. To end up in that situation is ridiculously unsafe, and in that situation, the blame should be shared between parties. You’re still responsible for what you do when you’re drunk, and therefore I am in no way saying that rape is okay or the “natural state of men.” That being said, for the woman to place herself in that situation, drunk or not, is a decision made by her given that she is also responsible for herself.

    I am not suggesting every woman stay home, I am not saying you cannot be raped by a family member. What I AM saying is you can TRY and diminish the risks you take. Your sarcasm and attempts to draw me into the image of a raging, snarling, misogynistic man aren’t going to work. I am not saying rape is okay. I am not saying it’s not the man’s fault. I am not saying that we shouldn’t be trying to address the issue. What I AM saying is that we shouldn’t say the woman can’t do anything about it, has no responsibility in the issue, and are incapable of doing anything to protect themselves. That’s neither beneficial for the safety of women, nor for a productive discussion regarding the subject.

    • Fawn

      Like she mentioned before, the boys from Stuebenville were sober when they committed that atrocious act. So no, it’s not “both parties are guilty because they were both drinking”. One party was completely unconscious and the other party was raping her.
      And you know what? I’m a girl, and I drink, I go to parties, I drink socially, I get drunk around my friends. And guess what? I never raped any of them.
      Nope. Never.
      Do you even realize how you are blaming this whole thing on the victim? According to you, the victim deserved it because she was drinking, but the rapist is somehow excused from his behaviour because he was drinking? It doesn’t work that way.
      Even if they are both drinking, she is not at fault at all. She hurt no one. She was unconscious, and those boys raped her.
      If some drunk idiot wrapped his car around a pole, he’d be at fault for that too. But the other drunk person who just fell asleep in the corner and bothered no one? That person is not guilty of anything. THEY ARE SLEEPING.
      I would suggest you really rethink all of your sexual encounters and I sincerely hope you have not taking advantage of girls in your past.

  • Fufu77

    Please, your argument is coming off as shrill and whiny. Yes we all know that rape is bad, just like we know murder is bad. It you’re going to take the time to give a point by point rebuttal to an obviously ridiculous post no one is going to take you seriously. Trust me, most people are quite aware that rape is a vile crime, but whatever you do, no matter how “empowered” you become, unfortunately it’s still gonna happen.

  • zombieprincess

    I am confused as to why we even have to debate or fight about this. If anyone is raped something should be done. It should be handled with the care, empathy, and respect all human’s deserve.

  • Jen Roberts

    I think you misunderstood his first point: he wasn’t saying that she injured other people; he was saying she injured HERSELF as a consequence of being drunk. Which…is actually WORSE than what you thought she meant. v__v A whole lot worse. And I’m not even going to try to get into that. >_<
    This entire thing is great though. :D Thank you for writing this; if anyone needs me, I'll be linking it all over the internet.

  • Naeryn

    It seems to me that victim blaming is not so much akin to not sympathizing with a drunk driver who hits a telephone pole as it is blaming the telephone pole for being in the drunk driver’s way. Sure, he shouldn’t have been drinking and driving, but everybody knows it happens. It’s foolish not to account for it.

  • mona

    i want to say something to all the men who downplay this “rape culture” phrase and who say that it’s “not only” the rapists fault: you are wrong.

    tell me something: why do women have to worry about what they wear, where they go, what they drink and what time of the day it is to make sure they’re not raped?
    because men invented this great excuse that some of them are still using today: i can’t control my penis, omg! don’t make the penis like your outfit! if the penis likes how you look that’s not my fault!

    guys, the penis is yours. you decide what to do with it. and whatever you decide to do with it is your fucking fault. if you’re a monster, you rape. if you’re a decent, normal human being, you don’t.. it’s really THAT easy. it doesn’t depend on what someone else decides to wear.

    yeah suuuuure, she could have worn a turtleneck, but why the hell would she? aren’t men also allowed to wear whatever they like? pants hanging at the knees? do you see that as an invitation for other men to rape them because it draws attention to the area of their assholes? i don’t think so.

    if a hot guy walks down the street, six pack and no shirt on, do you think he worries about someone raping him? no he doesn’t.

    women shouldn’t have to worry about these things either.

    and THAT’S the problem here.

    apart from some idiots who think that they know what they’re talking about when they rant about equality…..( lester z. )

  • bob marley

    yeah I will never understand the other side to this argument. Shit. If a woman does something to lead me on and confuse me….like flirt with me, get me in bed, and then at the last second say “no”…sure, it’s annoying. I might call her flakey, I might call her weird, and I’d probably never date her again…but I sure as hell wouldn’t rape her.
    And…if a woman is too drunk to walk straight and I don’t know her very well, I’m not going to have sex with her.
    I also don’t care what a woman’s wearing, it’s no excuse. Now…if a woman wears super revealing clothing to a party then she should expect to be hit on and oogled…sure. If I see a busty woman in a very low cut shirt I will probably check out her boobs, not even consciously, I’ll just do it automatically. She can’t blame me for that. But actually raping her? No… there’s just no connection between the two

  • Pat

    Inability to understand anaolgies just makes this conversation that much harder. Of course rape isn’t the same as theft.

  • Ilham Bint Sirin

    2. “When a drunk driver hits a telephone pole, does anyone sympathize with him?”

    The answer to this kind of comment is:
    Rape is not something that is bound to happen to all woman, if they are not careful. A car crash however is bound to happen to all drivers if they are not careful indeed!

    Rape is a crime inflicted from one (or several) people on another, with no control of the victim over what is happening.